@rajk999 said<<The Son is UNDER and LESSER than the Father
While I am in agreement that the Son of God was created by the Father at some point in the distant past, maybe millions of years before the creation of this Earth, that passage is not about Jesus Christ. Read it again. It is about Wisdom.
The Son is UNDER and LESSER than the Father
God is ABOVE and GREATER than the Son
The bible is clear on those points
Trying to claim that they are equal just to support a false doctrine is ridiculous.
God is ABOVE and GREATER than the Son
The bible is clear on those points>>
Clear where? If you’re referring to Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry, I agree with you. But Jesus was “made a little lower than the angels” to “taste death for every man.” (See Hebrews 2.)
Jesus wasn’t always a little lower than the angels - only when He was in human flesh.
And in Hebrews 1, God the Father calls Jesus “God.”
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You could tend to think whatever you like, who cares. People are interested in factual statements from the bible, not what tickles your fancy.
It is not written to you for your benefit.
It is written for the benefit of those who may be reading along.
The factual statement is that the Word Who was with God was God.
If you teach that is two gods then you are a polytheist.
Some reading care if you resist it.
"I am Jehovah and there is no one else" (Isaiah 45:18)
Jehovah Himself asks "Who was with Me?" when He created the universe.
"I am Jehovah who makes all things, Who alone stretches out the heavens, Who spread out the earth (Who was With Me?) (Isaiah 44:24)
Before Jehovah there was no god formed. And after Him there was no god formed.
"You are My witnesses, declares Jehovah . . . Before Me there was no God formed, Neither will there be any after Me." (Isa. 43:10)
Are you interested in what is written? There it is.
Go on to verse 11 - "I, even I am Jehovah; And there is no Savior besides Me." (v.11)
@rajk999 saidYou’re latching onto the Father/Son relationship as if that proves Jesus Christ was created.
Father, Son, Google it
But how do you explain these verses?
“But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”
(John 5:17-18)
@pb1022 saidThere is nothing to explain. I said already that I do not take my doctrine from the opinions of men. I take it from the teachings of Christ. The Jews, Pharisees, Thomas even Paul are all fallible men. Jesus said who he was, who the hell cares what men say... oh you do ... I know why too.
You’re latching onto the Father/Son relationship as if that proves Jesus Christ was created.
But how do you explain these verses?
“But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”
(John 5:17-18)
@rajk999 saidYes, God is eternal, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. You'd have Him changing altering His makeup to suit you.
Father, Son, Google it
Isaiah 43
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
I, I am the Lord,
and besides me there is no savior.
I declared and saved and proclaimed,
when there was no strange god among you;
and you are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and I am God.
@kellyjay saidNo one is telling you that Jehovah has to alter anything. He is all of these things and maybe a zillion more that well never know about in his makeup as you say. The only really big thing is that he had no beginning. The bible is so clear on that and the bible is only speaking of one being but that one being Jehovah has an invisible force or power that he uses to get done what ever he wants done. If he wants to flatten a mountain, this active force or invisible strength does what he ask of it... So that has always been because Jehovah has always been.
Yes, God is eternal, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. You'd have Him changing altering His makeup to suit you.
@rajk999 saidBut remember: You only listen to what Jesus said to masses of people - not to individuals or small groups. That’s your new standard.
There is nothing to explain. I said already that I do not take my doctrine from the opinions of men. I take it from the teachings of Christ. The Jews, Pharisees, Thomas even Paul are all fallible men. Jesus said who he was, who the hell cares what men say... oh you do ... I know why too.
And you believe what Paul said, but only when he agrees with you. Otherwise, Paul is fallible and in error. Same with John.
When they say things you agree with, you cite them and quote them. When they don’t, they’re in error.
You alone are the arbiter of what is true. Certainly not Paul and certainly not John. They’re fallible. And certainly not Jesus when He was speaking to individuals or small groups.
Your Bible consists of Matthew 5-7 and that’s it.
@medullah saidThe Trinity can be seen early on in the Gospels at Jesus’ baptism.
If you picked the bible up a read it from cover to cover you might some up with the idea that the Father and Son are the same person if you weren't concentrating.
There is no way that you would assemble a trinity.
“And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
(Matthew 3:16-17)
@galveston75 saidI have been saying all along, one Being, God. The difference is you have denied the Son and the Holy Spirit as God, three persons, one Being.
No one is telling you that Jehovah has to alter anything. He is all of these things and maybe a zillion more that well never know about in his makeup as you say. The only really big thing is that he had no beginning. The bible is so clear on that and the bible is only speaking of one being but that one being Jehovah has an invisible force or power that he uses to get done ...[text shortened]... visible strength does what he ask of it... So that has always been because Jehovah has always been.