It is not unusual for men to only consider individual blessing, individual salvation, individual relationship of people to God.
But on God's heart is something more than just each person's individual blessed happiness though this is important to God. More so, He created man with a purpose to involve him collectively in a divine enterprise of being a vessel to contain Him. That is a house, a habitation, a dwelling place, a living temple, a city, a corporate manifestation of the mingling of God with man.
For this reason the mighty prayer of Jesus for the church in John 17 includes that the universal church would be PERFECTED . . . into one even as the triune God is one.
Blame the Lord Jesus. He petitioned it of His Father.
"I in them and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me." (John 17:23)
The oneness of the church with God and with each other is the supreme convincing matter to cause the world to believe that God sent the Son that He loved to the uttermost.
This oneness of the church is related to the dispensing of the Triune God into man.
"That they all may be one; even as You Father, are in Me and I in You, that they . . . ALSO . . . may be in Us . . . that the world may believe that You have sent Me."
Thank God these are the kinds of things we are also taught in the local churches.
That is - why lies beyond individual blessing of individual salvation?
God has an eternal purpose.
The Trinity is important. If God is EVERYTHING a man NEEDS, and God comes to indwell man and to live in man, then what would be the possible need for someone else not God to accompany Him?
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
But if God Himself - the Father can make an abode with is and He is the ultimate, what possible shortage should remain that the Son who is not God come with Him as "We" ?
I expect some thumb-downer to come up with an answer involving more that just his thumb. Here's your chance to explain why the Father indwelling man is not enough, so that another who is not God has to come along to fill up some lack.
The Importance of the Trinity.
The Lord Jesus instructed His disciples to plunge people into name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
I do not believe this is just His instruction of what to pronounce when they are baptizing new believers. I think to immerse them in the name of the Trinity is to put people into God through their preaching, teaching, and taking the gospel to all the world.
Put people into God - the Triune God - into the name. The name denoting the Person, His presence, plunge people into experience and enjoyment of the Father - Son - Holy Spirit.
It is of vital importance that human beings through the gospel of Christ come into the living Person of the Triune God.
@rajk999 saidIt doesn't matter how old the universe is; you still cannot show that Jesus was a created being. While scriptures talk about how nothing was created except through Him, He wasn't created. He made all things that were made for Him, and He holds it all together by the power of His Word. That would remain true if the earth is thousands of years old or billions; time isn't a factor in that discussion, only the truth surrounding Christ. Jesus is called God whose throne is forever and ever; on top of that, it says, "God, your God..." This is clearly specifying who Jesus is.
Call it what you like Mr Universe-is-six-thousand-yrs-old YEC.
The Universe is about 18 B yrs old
Hebrews 1
But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
@rajk999 saidThis entire thread already does this. You only need to read.
Give me supporting bible references for
1. God didn't create Jesus;
2. Jesus isn't a created being.
3. Jesus is begotten [... from where / who ]
4. there was never a time He wasn't.
Note that the word 'begotten' means 'born of' or fathered.
The Importance of the Trinity is seen in the last book of the Bible in its closing word.
Revelation 22:21 - "The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints."
This is the concluding and final sentence of the entire sixty-six books of the Bible. May God's grace be with all the sanctified human beings - all the saints - all those saved and made holy.
Where is the Trinity in this? The grace PROCEEDS FROM the Triune God. Grace flows out of God the Father, the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit of God.
" John to the seven churches which are in Asia:
GRACE to you and peace
from Him who is and who was and who is coming,
and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins in His own blood . . . " (Rev. 1:4-5)
@kellyjay saidYou need proof that begotten sons are born of their fathers?
It doesn't matter how old the universe is; you still cannot show that Jesus was a created being. While scriptures talk about how nothing was created except through Him, He wasn't created. He made all things that were made for Him, and He holds it all together by the power of His Word. That would remain true if the earth is thousands of years old or billions; time isn't a fac ...[text shortened]... s;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
@rajk999 saidNot at all; Mary was overshadowed once by God and conceived, the only-begotten. All of us were created when God made Adam and Eve, and all other humans came through normal human procreation. In addition to that, before this happened with Mary, Jesus was already with the Father, so His beginning didn't happen with Mary's conception. So you can play around with how old the universe is; it doesn't matter to the question of was Jesus Christ created; before the foundations of the universe He was, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.
You need proof that begotten sons are born of their fathers?
Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
1 Peter 1:20
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
@kellyjay saidWho asked you anything about that. Jesus was with the Father before the creation. He was the Son BEFORE.
Not at all; Mary was overshadowed once by God and conceived, the only-begotten. All of us were created when God made Adam and Eve, and all other humans came through normal human procreation. In addition to that, before this happened with Mary, Jesus was already with the Father, so His beginning didn't happen with Mary's conception. So you can play around with how old the uni ...[text shortened]... known before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
FATHER AND SON WERE THERE BEFORE....LONG BEFORE.
If somebody needs to prove to you who appeared first and how the second person [THE SON] arrived then you need to go back to kindergarten.