What do you think about "Hell"??

Originally posted by KellyJay
It is very simple Jesus is going to tell those that know Him to come
and those that He doesn't know to depart from Him. So if you are
going your merry way without Christ in your life, you know where you
will fall out, if you have Christ in your life you are already there.
Kelly

Do you really think thay Jesus is going to order those who 'don't know him ' away from him?
My .my we are treading on thin ice here.
But i would welcome any rebuttalls

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Do you really think thay Jesus is going to order those who 'don't know him ' away from him?
My .my we are treading on thin ice here.
But i would welcome any rebuttalls

Matthew 7:22-24 (New Living Translation)
22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’


24 “Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock.

Yes I do.
Kelly

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Do you really think thay Jesus is going to order those who 'don't know him ' away from him?
My .my we are treading on thin ice here.
But i would welcome any rebuttalls

==============================
Do you really think thay Jesus is going to order those who 'don't know him ' away from him?
My .my we are treading on thin ice here.
But i would welcome any rebuttalls
====================================

The word "know" there means approved or allowed.

Jesus is saying that they did some things but He never approved of them, He never allowed them.

Now it is me writing to you and I don't assume that Kelly agrees with me. But, this passage does not have to specifically mean eternal damnation.

The fact that some of the things done in the name of Jesus like castingout demons and mighty works, I think, indicates that genuine Christian workers are included in these actions. And they are saved forever.

I firmly believe that this charge for them to depart that He never allowed them or approved of their works does not indicate an eternal discharge but a temporary loss of reward, a temporary exclusion from the glorious presence of the Lord.

If you need more justification for this view I can provide it.

This departing because of disapproved works - disallowed works in the name of Jesus is the loss of reward rather than the loss of eternal redemption.

"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15)

One who is eternally redeemed may at the second coming of Jesus "suffer loss" though he himself is "saved, yet so as through fire."


What do you think Kelly ? This is getting into what we said we would discuss piece by piece.


PS. This not approved behavior of some Christian teachers is not meant by mean that casting out demons per se is unChristian. It is not to say mighty works is unChristian.

It is to say that sometimes the worker's character may not be disciplined by the Lord, but somehow the Lord, perhaps for the sake of others, may let them "use" His name.

AA Allen was a great faitrh healer. Yet I do believe that he died of alchoholism. While I do not want to judge in place of Jesus the principle I submit is this: Jesus wants us to do the will of the Father. and that requires more than mere outward actions "in the name of Jesus". It requires that we let the Father have His will done in our soul, in our personality, in sanctification and transformation of the soul by the Holy Spirit.

The case of Samson in the Old Testament is a spiritual warning.

So do you both believe Jesus had nothing better to do than police Gods laws ?
(i get the essence of your point kelly, but ,(even if it was written in scripture), is it not possible,even probable that Jesus may have moved on from his origonal view.)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So do you both believe Jesus had nothing better to do than police Gods laws ?
(i get the essence of your point kelly, but ,(even if it was written in scripture), is it not possible,even probable that Jesus may have moved on from his origonal view.)

====================================
So do you both believe Jesus had nothing better to do than police Gods laws ?
======================================

You should not assume that because, for the moment we focus on this particular aspect of His ministry, that that means I don't believe He is doing anything else.

If you would like to view what else I see Jesus doing visit my thread on Beyond Jesus is God.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So do you both believe Jesus had nothing better to do than police Gods laws ?
(i get the essence of your point kelly, but ,(even if it was written in scripture), is it not possible,even probable that Jesus may have moved on from his origonal view.)

He said it, you can reject it or accept it.
Kelly

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So do you both believe Jesus had nothing better to do than police Gods laws ?
(i get the essence of your point kelly, but ,(even if it was written in scripture), is it not possible,even probable that Jesus may have moved on from his origonal view.)

In what way you think Jesus may have " ... moved on from his origonal view."

Originally posted by Rajk999
In what way you think Jesus may have " ... moved on from his origonal view."

Oh you know...just like anyone else.
It might've seemed like a good idea to begin with and then he might've lightened up.
I'm not saying for sure I'm just saying...
People change ... especially cool enlightened people

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
So do you both believe Jesus had nothing better to do than police Gods laws ?
======================================

You should not assume that because, for the moment we focus on this particular aspect of His ministry, that that means I don't believe He is doing anything else.

If you would like to view what else I see Jesus doing visit my thread on Beyond Jesus is God.[/b]

I'm sure he has a million other things to do.
Still if he knows of Gods omnipotence then why would he need to worry about who thinks or violates what?

Originally posted by KellyJay
He said it, you can reject it or accept it.
Kelly

I am not inclined to accept or reject it.
I do however find something disturbing about the ' son of God' having to tell people to piss off.
I mean I know they are sinners and all, but aren't we all?
Maybe the scriptures did say that and maybe Jesus regretted just a little bit.
After all he did hang out with bums did he not?
(
i know, I know - they were trangressing the Laws of GOD... but c'mon , think for yourself a bit. Those laws are great for keeping murderers in line,and such. But when it comes to higher learning...)🙂

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm sure he has a million other things to do.
Still if he knows of Gods omnipotence then why would he need to worry about who thinks or violates what?

=============================
I'm sure he has a million other things to do.
Still if he knows of Gods omnipotence then why would he need to worry about who thinks or violates what?
=================================

Good. We have agreed that Jesus Christ is about other things besides judging sinners.

God and the Son of God coordinate perfectly together. They are a team that cannot possibly be beat.

God has placed the responsibilty of judgment with this man and according to this man.

"Therefore, having overlooked the times of ignorance, God now charges all men everywhere to repent. Because He has set a day in which He is to judge the world in righteousness by the man whom He has designated, having furnished proof to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:31)

God will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom He has raised from the dead, Jesus, His omnipotence not withstanding.

" In the day when God judges the secrets of men according to my gospel through Jesus Christ" (Romans. 2:16)

Not withstanding God's omnipotence He will judge the secrets of men through Jesus Christ.

"For neither does the Father judge anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father. " (John 5:22a)

Dispite His omnipotence God has commited all judgment to the Son that all may honor Him as they would the Father.

"For just as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave the Son to have life in Himself; And He gave Him authority to execute judgment because He is the Son of Man." (John 5:17)

Despite God's omnipotence He has arranged that the Son of Man not only give eternal life but also execute judgment.


There is more than one judgment. To the Christians they stand before "the judgement seat of God" (Roman 14:10) which is also called "the judgment seat of Christ " (2 Cor. 5:10)

Both the living and the dead are judged by Christ. It does not necessarily mean that all living and dead are judged at the same time:

"And He has charged us to proclaim to the people and solemnly testify that this is the One [Christ] who is designated by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead." (Acts 10:42)

"I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead ..." (2 Tim. 4:1)


Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God Himself incarnate as a man. So on one hand Jehovah God of the Old Testament says that every knee will bow and every tongue will sware to Him, so also every knee will bow and tongue confess to Jesus:

Isaiah 45:23 - "I have swarn by Myself; A word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness and will not return,

That every knee shall bow to Me; and every tongue shall swear. It shall be said of Me, Only in Jehovah is there righteousness and stength."

Philippians 2:9,10 - Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

The coordination of the First and Second of the Triune God is totally harmonious and absolute. God's omnipotence is expressed in His judging all men through Jesus.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I am not inclined to accept or reject it.
I do however find something disturbing about the ' son of God' having to tell people to piss off.
I mean I know they are sinners and all, but aren't we all?
Maybe the scriptures did say that and maybe Jesus regretted just a little bit.
After all he did hang out with bums did he not?
(
i know, I know - ...[text shortened]... re great for keeping murderers in line,and such. But when it comes to higher learning...)🙂

Yep, we all are sinners before God who will treat us as sinners if we
stand before God in our sins. Unlike man, God speaks and actually
follows through with what He says, He does not mix His mercy or
His wrath when judgment comes, you will either get mercy with no
guilt held over your head, or you will be condemned with no mercy
mixed into it. I'm not sure where you are getting your views outside
of maybe your own hopes on the subject, but I can tell you that the
scriptures that speak about judgment leave no doubt about that at
all in my opinion.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yep, we all are sinners before God who will treat us as sinners if we
stand before God in our sins. Unlike man, God speaks and actually
follows through with what He says, He does not mix His mercy or
His wrath when judgment comes, you will either get mercy with no
guilt held over your head, or you will be condemned with no mercy
mixed into it. I'm not ...[text shortened]... e
scriptures that speak about judgment leave no doubt about that at
all in my opinion.
Kelly

Yes i'm afraid my views do come from myself ,(Though they may be influenced by the scriptures), however I can definatly tell you they are more than hopes.
God has shone his light on me and it 'burned'.
Thats just not something I can dismiss...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yes i'm afraid my views do come from myself ,(Though they may be influenced by the scriptures), however I can definatly tell you they are more than hopes.
God has shone his light on me and it 'burned'.
Thats just not something I can dismiss...

Well, if I had to choose between a burning feeling of being right in
you or anyone else over scripture, I choose scripture.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well, if I had to choose between a burning feeling of being right in
you or anyone else over scripture, I choose scripture.
Kelly

Yeah,I hear you, and thats what makes you such an interesting poster to me: the force of your convictions😉