What do you think about "Hell"??

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yes i'm afraid my views do come from myself ,(Though they may be influenced by the scriptures), however I can definatly tell you they are more than hopes.
God has shone his light on me and it 'burned'.
Thats just not something I can dismiss...

Try applying the blood of Jesus to your conscience.

I often pray like this:

"Dear God you have shown me something that kind of burns me. Now dear Lord cleanse me in the precious blood of Jesus that my heart me be at peace and allow you to transform me."

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yeah,I hear you, and thats what makes you such an interesting poster to me: the force of your convictions😉

Basically this is what I believe you are doing.


2 Peter American Standard Version

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him by the Majestic Glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased:

18 and this voice we ourselves heard borne out of heaven, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19 And we have the word of prophecy made more sure; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts:

20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation.

21 For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.

What you are asking me to do is take your burning feeling, your
private interpretation and put it over scripture, it isn't going to happen
and it is a bad thing to do.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Basically this is what I believe you are doing.


2 Peter American Standard Version

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him ...[text shortened]... tation and put it over scripture, it isn't going to happen
and it is a bad thing to do.
Kelly

You seem a bit defensive.
I have room in my world-view to accomodate your beliefs.
I have gone out on a limb to try to share something of myself,of my experience.
Maybe I have bitten off more than I can chew but I don't care.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
You seem a bit defensive.
I have room in my world-view to accomodate your beliefs.
I have gone out on a limb to try to share something of myself,of my experience.
Maybe I have bitten off more than I can chew but I don't care.

I'm not being defensive, I'm simply enlightening you about the topic
you have chosen to discuss. Anyone can believe whatever they want
about Hell, Heaven, or any other topic we want to discuss be it matters
that are religious in nature or not. The issues arise when we start
giving our reasons for our beliefs, you’re so far unless I have misread
you was that you got this feeling which you use to trump Jesus' words
in scripture which I find that a bit presumptuous of you, but you have
the ability to do that if you wish.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm not being defensive, I'm simply enlightening you about the topic
you have chosen to discuss. Anyone can believe whatever they want
about Hell, Heaven, or any other topic we want to discuss be it matters
that are religious in nature or not. The issues arise when we start
giving our reasons for our beliefs, you’re so far unless I have misread
you was ...[text shortened]... find that a bit presumptuous of you, but you have
the ability to do that if you wish.
Kelly

i guess its my approach.
I think Jesus is great an all , I just dont put him up on a pedestal like some of you others out there.
I think there is a hell of a lot of latent creativity within the LIVE posters on this forum,(and humanity in general). I'm interested in contemporary issues and experiences. I think more people can start 'conciously' creating their own realities rather than substituting out-dated dead ones

Originally posted by karoly aczel
i guess its my approach.
I think Jesus is great an all , I just dont put him up on a pedestal like some of you others out there.
I think there is a hell of a lot of latent creativity within the LIVE posters on this forum,(and humanity in general). I'm interested in contemporary issues and experiences. I think more people can start 'conciously' creating their own realities rather than substituting out-dated dead ones

You seem to like the make it as you go method I'm not there, used
to be but not any more. Truth is truth, dates do not change that so
that it gets out dated, now opinions come and go, people come and
go, our understanding may increase or diminish as well over time. Yet
having a live person tell you what they like or feel about any topic
does not automatically make their views more valid than one
expressed in the past if the one in the past was correct. If scripture
didn’t speak about Hell would you even have views about it? If the
scriptures are the source for this topic why would you ignore them to
go to someone whose only credentials you have given so far is that
they are alive and give their views more weight than the original
source for the topic?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You seem to like the make it as you go method I'm not there, used
to be but not any more. Truth is truth, dates do not change that so
that it gets out dated, now opinions come and go, people come and
go, our understanding may increase or diminish as well over time. Yet
having a live person tell you what they like or feel about any topic
does not autom ...[text shortened]... they are alive and give their views more weight than the original
source for the topic?
Kelly

Yeah,its a damn good question.
I guess I'm not really sure but some other live people have told me about spiritual stuff.
Special people who have 'touched' my soul.
If I met Jesus when he were alive I'm sure he would have 'touched' my soul too but the point remains: he is dead
THE message is eternal. The teachings are eternal.
Surely they can be tapped into by others.
It may seem like I make it up as I go but trust me,(if you want), my position on these matters has been carefully worked out.

Originally posted by jaywill
Try applying the blood of Jesus to your conscience.

I often pray like this:

[b]"Dear God you have shown me something that kind of burns me. Now dear Lord cleanse me in the precious blood of Jesus that my heart me be at peace and allow you to transform me."[/b]

Thats a nice prayer
I don't think either of you are getting me when i say my soul was 'burned'
Thats ok. I know language is always going to have its difficulties.
All I can do is try my best.
What kind of 'spiritual person' would I be if I were to go back on all that I've learned in my life?
For example if you(robbie)were to go against what you have gleened from Jesus' teachings.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yeah,its a damn good question.
I guess I'm not really sure but some other live people have told me about spiritual stuff.
Special people who have 'touched' my soul.
If I met Jesus when he were alive I'm sure he would have 'touched' my soul too but the point remains: he is dead
THE message is eternal. The teachings are eternal.
Surely they can be ...[text shortened]... go but trust me,(if you want), my position on these matters has been carefully worked out.

Well, I disagree with the notion Jesus is dead since I believe he rose
from the dead and is alive now and will be forever. Which from my
point of view places his views on such topics as Hell and Heaven of
more importance than those of us who carefully work out their points
of views while talking among ourselves.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well, I disagree with the notion Jesus is dead since I believe he rose
from the dead and is alive now and will be forever. Which from my
point of view places his views on such topics as Hell and Heaven of
more importance than those of us who carefully work out their points
of views while talking among ourselves.
Kelly

Yep,well I disegree
Nobody has a monopoly on the truth.
Its just a ridiculous notion.
Is this what Jesus would have wanted?
Did he not want us to find the truth ourselves?
Are you going to keep burying your head in the sand?
Jesus has made his points. His followers have made his points. (over and over)
Lets move forward, out of 'his-story' into the Present.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yep,well I disegree
Nobody has a monopoly on the truth.
Its just a ridiculous notion.
Is this what Jesus would have wanted?
Did he not want us to find the truth ourselves?
Are you going to keep burying your head in the sand?
Jesus has made his points. His followers have made his points. (over and over)
Lets move forward, out of 'his-story' into the Present.

Yea, again the truth is the truth, it is what it is, and it does not depend
upon man for the reality of it. Opinions are another thing altogether,
and you seem to want to express your opinion and that of others as
if it were the truth. Jesus if you actually read His words would find that
he said he was, is, and will be the very embodiment of the truth
according to scripture which isn't a claim anyone else has made that
you or I know today unless I'm quite mistaken.

I can see your point if you feel all Jesus was, was just a guy who lived
a special life while he was here and died, except the recorded history
about him in scripture suggest he was much more than that. Actually
according to scripture to talk about him in past tense like that would be
wrong because he is alive today. Which is sort of the whole point of
the Christian faith so we could enjoy the joy of the Lord in fellowship
and avoid Hell altogether.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yea, again the truth is the truth, it is what it is, and it does not depend
upon man for the reality of it. Opinions are another thing altogether,
and you seem to want to express your opinion and that of others as
if it were the truth. Jesus if you actually read His words would find that
he said he was, is, and will be the very embodiment of the truth
...[text shortened]... n faith so we could enjoy the joy of the Lord in fellowship
and avoid Hell altogether.
Kelly

truth is truth
IS what Is
I think you may be mistaken about the sort of people I may have met,but I doubt you will admit it.
For all I know Jesus is in a box-like sattelite circling the earth doing hard-core penance.
(if I am wrong He can send me a telepathic message to knock it off)
And before you dismiss me as a crackpot just remember - I don't care what you think about me, I am an advocate of the truth and would never purposefully betray my better judgement
peace and change
Charlie

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yep,well I disegree
Nobody has a monopoly on the truth.
Its just a ridiculous notion.
Is this what Jesus would have wanted?
Did he not want us to find the truth ourselves?
Are you going to keep burying your head in the sand?
Jesus has made his points. His followers have made his points. (over and over)
Lets move forward, out of 'his-story' into the Present.

===========================
Nobody has a monopoly on the truth.
Its just a ridiculous notion.
==============================

The New Testament tells me "Christ .. in whom all the treasures of wisdom and knowlege are hidden" (Col. 2:3)

Concerning the meaning of life I believe that all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Christ.

It also says that God " ... desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

So Christ's salvation is not only to save us from eternal perdition but also that we may come to the full knowledge of the truth of our human existence.

====================
Is this what Jesus would have wanted?
Did he not want us to find the truth ourselves?
=============================

He wants us to come to Him - "Come unto me all you how labor and are heavy laden ... and I will give you rest."

He wanted is to find Him and come unto Him. We may not all come the same way to Him. It is important that we come to Him.

============================
Are you going to keep burying your head in the sand?
Jesus has made his points. His followers have made his points. (over and over)
Lets move forward, out of 'his-story' into the Present.
=============================

The Bible says that the heart turned away from the Lord Jesus is veiled. That means it has a kind of covering over it so as to disallow light to shine through.

But when the heart turns to the Lord Jesus the veil is taken away. This means that the head comes out of the sand, if you will, when the heart turns to the Lord Jesus as He is, a living Person.

"But whenever their heart turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit. And where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom." (2 Cor. 3:16,17a)

The covering over the human heart is just the heart turned away from the Lord Jesus. When the heart turns to the Lord as a living Person, the veil is taken away by the Lord Jesus.

This taking away of the veil from over the turned away heart is akin to your analogy of the head buried in the sand. When I called on the name of the Lord Jesus to contact Jesus and fellowship with Jesus, the veil was removed from my heart and I touched and contacted reality.

"Whenever" emphasizes at any time. Even tonight. When you call on the name of the Lord Jesus to touch Him sincerely the revelation that Jesus is Lord and is living shines into your heart.

The Psalmist wrote "I love the Lord because He heard my voice."

When you call "Lord Jesus, cleanse me from my sins. Lord Jesus I receive you as my Lord and Savior" the Lord Jesus hears your voice. That is your voice.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]===========================
Nobody has a monopoly on the truth.
Its just a ridiculous notion.
==============================

The New Testament tells me "Christ .. in whom all the treasures of wisdom and knowlege are hidden" (Col. 2:3)

Concerning the meaning of life I believe that all the treasures of wisdom and kno ...[text shortened]... my Lord and Savior" [/b] the Lord Jesus hears your voice. That is your voice.[/b]

Jaywill,dude how much patience have you got?
Do you not get by now that I don't go for all this ' lose yourself in Jesus' crap.
I really don't have anything against Christians.
I'm sure its a fine religion for those who practice it wisely
As far as spiritual historical figures go what about Toth?
What about melkiezedek?
What about the patriarchs of Zen?
Do you not maybe suspect that they too have touched the hearts of earnest truth seekers.
NOBODY HAS A MONOPOLY ON THE TRUTH
One size does not fit all
Christianity is not the oldest or most popular religion

Originally posted by karoly aczel
truth is truth
IS what Is
I think you may be mistaken about the sort of people I may have met,but I doubt you will admit it.
For all I know Jesus is in a box-like sattelite circling the earth doing hard-core penance.
(if I am wrong He can send me a telepathic message to knock it off)
And before you dismiss me as a crackpot just remember - I don't c ...[text shortened]... f the truth and would never purposefully betray my better judgement
peace and change
Charlie

I'm more about talking about/to you than the people you met since
they are not here giving us their views, we are. I'm not sure how you
think your an advocate for the truth as much as you are about defending
your views/feelings. Your source so far for judgment is how you feel
about things, which is a very self centered approach if you look at it
honestly.
Kelly