29 Dec 17
To sonship: Another question on the title lord and if Jehovah and Jesus are the same lord or are they separate and has Jesus always been a lord as his Father Jehovah has been?
According to Acts 2:36 Jesus has not always been called lord not has been a lord "Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”
If they were truly equal and have always existed as the same, why was Jesus not always a lord just as his Father Jehovah has been? As this scripture shows the title of both lord and Christ did have a beginning just as the bible says Jesus had a beginning.
29 Dec 17
Originally posted by @dj2beckerAbout the same value as you telling me that you don’t think I’m a son of Satan.
I guess your thanks isn’t worth much then? 😕
29 Dec 17
Originally posted by @galveston75Why not just lever the official JW position that Jesus is a created angel?
To sonship: Another question on the title lord and if Jehovah and Jesus are the same lord or are they separate and has Jesus always been a lord as his Father Jehovah has been?
According to Acts 2:36 Jesus has not always been called lord not has been a lord "Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and ...[text shortened]... title of both lord and Christ did have a beginning just as the bible says Jesus had a beginning.
Originally posted by @divegeesterSure deal..he was a created angel.
Why not just lever the official JW position that Jesus is a created angel?
Who are the angels?
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
Before God created the physical universe and the first humans, he had already created a higher order of intelligent creatures. They are more powerful than humans, and they inhabit the same realm as God himself—a realm inaccessible and invisible to mankind. (Job 38:4, 7) The Bible calls those superior beings “spirits” and “angels.”—Psalm 104:4. *
How many angels exist? A huge number. The angels around God’s throne number “myriads of myriads,” or “tens of thousands times tens of thousands.” (Revelation 5:11; footnote) If this expression is to be taken in its literal sense, then the angels number into the hundreds of millions!
What did angels do in ancient times?
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
Angels often served as God’s spokespersons or messengers. * They are also portrayed in the Bible as carrying out God’s miraculous works. God sent an angel to bless Abraham and prevent him from sacrificing his son Isaac. (Genesis 22:11-18) An angel appeared to Moses in the midst of a burning bush to deliver a life-changing message. (Exodus 3:1, 2) When the prophet Daniel was thrown into a pit of lions, “God sent his angel and shut the mouth of the lions.”—Daniel 6:22.
Do angels have individual names and personalities?
Yes. The Bible gives the names of two angels: Michael and Gabriel. (Daniel 12:1; Luke 1:26) * Other angels acknowledged that they had names, but they did not reveal them.—Genesis 32:29; Judges 13:17, 18.
Angels have distinct personalities. They can communicate with one another. (1 Corinthians 13:1) They have thinking ability and are able to compose expressions of praise to God. (Luke 2:13, 14) And they have the freedom to choose between right and wrong, as seen when some of them sinned by joining Satan the Devil in his rebellion against God.—Matthew 25:41; 2 Peter 2:4.
Are there different ranks among angels?
Yes. The angel greatest in both power and authority is Michael, the archangel. (Jude 9; Revelation 12:7) Seraphs are high-ranking angels who are stationed near Jehovah’s throne. (Isaiah 6:2, 6) Cherubs form another high-ranking order of angels having special duties. For example, cherubs guarded the entrance to the garden of Eden after Adam and Eve were expelled.—Genesis 3:23, 24.
Millions of Spirit Creatures
The Bible tells us that there are many spirit persons. Jehovah is himself a spirit.—John 4:24; 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18.
At one time Jehovah was alone in the universe. Then he began to create spirit persons called angels. They are more powerful and more intelligent than humans. Jehovah created many angels; God’s servant Daniel, in a vision, saw a hundred million angels.—Daniel 7:10; Hebrews 1:7.
These angels were created by God even before he made the earth. (Job 38:4-7) None of them are people who once lived and died on earth.
See if you can figure out from this that yes Jesus is an angel....
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @galveston75Much more transparent of you.
Sure deal..he was a created angel.
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @galveston75You really should cite your source.
Sure deal..he was a created angel.
Who are the angels?
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
Before God created the physical universe and the first humans, he had already created a higher order of intelligent creatures. They are more powerful than humans, and they inhabit the same realm as God himself—a realm inaccessible and invisible to mankind. (Job 38:4, 7) Th ...[text shortened]... lived and died on earth.
See if you can figure out from this that yes Jesus is an angel....
Originally posted by @galveston75There isn’t anything thing in your copy/paste that proves Jesus was an angel. Of course you are entitled to believe whatever nonsense the Watchtower feeds you.
See if you can figure out from this that yes Jesus is an angel....
Originally posted by @dj2beckerYou asked me about this kind of thing before but basically ignored the personal information I shared and acted like a jerk. I suggest you make acquaintance with some other ex-Christian and see if you can have genuine conversations with them, assuming they are willing to indulge you.
Do you feel you have more or less hope now that you have abandoned your religious beliefs?
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @divegeesterAnd so are you. A challenge for you if your up to it. Prove to me that Jesus is not an angel.
There isn’t anything thing in your copy/paste that proves Jesus was an angel. Of course you are entitled to believe whatever nonsense the Watchtower feeds you.
30 Dec 17
Originally posted by @galveston75What was wrong with the previous debate a couple of years ago where you and robbie carrobie pointedly failed to prove your claim that Jesus is an angel according to the Bible?
And so are you. A challenge for you if your up to it. Prove to me that Jesus is not an angel.
Originally posted by @galveston75You cannot prove Jesus was an angel, it’s just a JW theory that has become part of your religious conscience over time.
And so are you. A challenge for you if your up to it. Prove to me that Jesus is not an angel.
As FMF says, you and Robbie failed to prove this point some time back and I’m certainly not going to spend considerable effort gathering scriptures which constest a position as weak as saying “Jesus was angel” for which you have no evidence whatsoever. Your argument is moot, there is no evidence.
Furthermore no one else here supports you in this and no matter what I came up with you wouldn’t accept it, so what is my motivation here? You are the one with the strange belief, the onus is on you to prove your point.
This is why I asked you above “why not simply lever your Jesus was an angel position”? The reason you don’t open with that is because you know it’s unsupportable - and hence why I brought it up 🙂
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Originally posted by @galveston75Do you think perhaps you are a little over-reliant on Daniel?
Sure deal..he was a created angel.
Who are the angels?
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
Before God created the physical universe and the first humans, he had already created a higher order of intelligent creatures. They are more powerful than humans, and they inhabit the same realm as God himself—a realm inaccessible and invisible to mankind. (Job 38:4, 7) Th ...[text shortened]... lived and died on earth.
See if you can figure out from this that yes Jesus is an angel....
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Originally posted by @galveston75Jesus Christ was a Sent One and a sent Messenger of Jehovah. So on one hand it is biblical to call Him the Angel.
And so are you. A challenge for you if your up to it. Prove to me that Jesus is not an angel.
The Angel of Jehovah was interchangeable with Jehovah God Himself in some places of the Old Testament.
There, you can say Jesus, who is God come incarnate as man, is also the Angel of Jehovah.
30 Dec 17
Heb 1:4 says this about Jesus: 4 "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs."
Notice the wording here which is very simple. Was Jesus equal with the the angels at one time in the sense that he is a spirit like they are, was a messenger as they are, was a son of God they they are, etc? Yes he was and still is, and is in a brotherhood of serving their father Jehovah as they all do. They are all his creation just as the bible says of Jesus that he was his Fathers "1st creation". All the other angels or brothers of Jesus were created later.
So according to this scripture Jesus was on an equal basis with all his brothers the angels but....at a later time would be exalted above them with the actions of faithfulness he lived and even died by. No other angel has done anything like this and that is why Jesus has the position he has now and will be given the opportunity to sit by his Fathers right hand.