Spirituality
20 Sep 14
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
25 Sep 14
Acts 4:8-12
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
NKJV
25 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999It is only those that God gives His Spirit too, and it is only done through
Do you know who is born again or who has Gods Spirit?
You think its only Christians have that privilege ?
You recognise that people cannot just mouth worship Christ and think they will be saved with that. Thats good enough for now.
Jesus Christ. I've given you plenty of scripture to back that up! I really
do care about those that just mouth the words they are lost and Jesus
still loves them and wants them to turn to Him, but they are lost as those
that do not know the Lord or reject Jesus and rely on their good works.
Kelly
25 Sep 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Does not matter what I know, it only matters that God gives His Spirit
Do you know who is born again or who has Gods Spirit?
You think its only Christians have that privilege ?
You recognise that people cannot just mouth worship Christ and think they will be saved with that. Thats good enough for now.
to those that belong to Him. It also does not matter if I can recognise
who is mouthing the words and not really following Jesus either, that is
going to be between them and Jesus, not them and me.
Kelly
27 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999So it all goes back to the same thing.
That passage KJ needs elaborating as you very well know since the devils also believe and tremble ie they know about Christ. Are they also saved?
So 'believe' really means something other than just to know about Him. Believe must be transformed into action and all of the Apostles explained that believing in Christ means to obey His commandments. Here is ...[text shortened]... goes back to the same thing.
Belief in Christ = obedience to Christ commandments = good works.
Belief in Christ = obedience to Christ commandments = good works.
I could go along with this, but this isn't what you have been preaching!
You seem to leave the first two off the list and settle only on the third
which is good works. One of the works God has given us is to believe in
Christ, which those that do not know Him can do since they do not know
Him. Those that have heard about Him yet refuse to obey Him are not
doing the works of God either even if some of their works are good.
We cannot earn our way into God's grace it is a gift, available to all. I'd
point out to you that you also don't work for gifts either, they are given
not earned.
Kelly
30 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999
Well let me clarify what I said or meant so that we can part company [on this topic] in peace.
Here goes:
1. All of mankind is saved by the death and resurrection of Christ. We are ALL saved from sin in the flesh inherited from Adam. We are NOT saved in the sense that we have eternal life. Much of the writings of Paul when he used the word 'saved' he m ...[text shortened]... live righteously have Gods spirit within them. Those who live a worldly sinful life are fleshly.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 6:23 NASB)
How is eternal life a free gift, if one must work to gain it?
30 Sep 14
Originally posted by RJHindsFor the wages of sin is death, but [b]the free gift of God is eternal lifein Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 6:23 NASB)
How is eternal life a free gift, if one must work to gain it?[/b]Christ said 'to love God and your neighbour as yourself'' is the way to eternal life. He said he will judge you by how well you have applied that to your life.
I dont know about your terminology ie 'free gift', 'work' etc., it could be that you are misinterpreting what these expressions mean. In any event what Christ said is laid down in stone and nobody can contradict Christ. You can choose to follow it or dont follow it. Everyone makes their own choice and Christ will judge in the end.
30 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Do you consider loving God and your neighbor as work?
Christ said 'to love God and your neighbour as yourself'' is the way to eternal life. He said he will judge you by how well you have applied that to your life.
I dont know about your terminology ie 'free gift', 'work' etc., it could be that you are misinterpreting what these expressions mean. In any event what Christ said is laid down in stone and nobod ...[text shortened]... o follow it or dont follow it. Everyone makes their own choice and Christ will judge in the end.
30 Sep 14
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsI consider loving God and your neighbour as essential prerequisites for entry into Gods Kingdom, per the teachings of Christ. I consider the commandments as desirable goals to which all Christians should aspire to follow and live by.
Do you consider loving God and your neighbor as work?
I dont try to analyse and classify and categorize. I consider that a waste of time and worse, that activity is quite often the beginning of false doctrines.
30 Sep 14
3 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999Then we seem to agree on everything except what it means to be saved by Christ. You only give Christ's death on the cross credit for removing the judgment of original sin on all people regardless of their beliefs. I believe Christ's death also saves all that believe on Him from the judgment of the wrath of God and the second death.
I consider loving God and your neighbour as essential prerequisites for entry into Gods Kingdom, per the teachings of Christ. I consider the commandments as desirable goals to which all Christians should aspire to follow and live by.
I dont try to analyse and classify and categorize. I consider that a waste of time and worse, that activity is quite often the beginning of false doctrines.
Here is what being saved meant to the disciples:
The Parable of the Rich Young Man
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
(Matthew 19:16-26 NASB)
Jesus said that with people being saved is impossible.
30 Sep 14
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsWell let me clarify what I said/meant about Christ death. The sacrifice of Christ was to atone for the sins of mankind. There are two parts to this:
Then we seem to agree on everything except what it means to be saved by Christ. You only give Christ's death on the cross credit for removing the judgment of original sin on all people regardless of their beliefs. I believe Christ's death also saves all that believe on Him from the judgment of the wrath of God and the second death.
Here is what being sav ...[text shortened]... le.” [/quote]
(Matthew 19:16-26 NASB)
Jesus said that with people being saved is impossible.
- the inherited sin from Adam which all of mankind is/was plagued with.
- the sins commited individually by all those who accept Him as well. How far this goes nobody can be totally clear. I am certain that the Bible's statement cannot be ignored and that there comes a point at which there is no more forgiveness of sins ie you cannot continue on in sin and expect to get eternal life [ like some believe].
I will read up on the parable you quoted and see if I understaand it differently.
Glad that we are in agreement on something as basic as the teachings of Christ. Judging from what I read from some other Christians they cannot stomach repeating Christ teachings and commandments.
30 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999So when Christ died and rose again, He did so for just some of your/our
Well let me clarify what I said/meant about Christ death. The sacrifice of Christ was to atone for the sins of mankind. There are two parts to this:
- the inherited sin from Adam which all of mankind is/was plagued with.
- the sins commited individually by all those who accept Him as well. How far this goes nobody can be totally clear. I am certain that th ...[text shortened]... read from some other Christians they cannot stomach repeating Christ teachings and commandments.
sins not all of them?
Kelly
30 Sep 14
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayHere is what Paul said.
So when Christ died and rose again, He did so for just some of your/our
sins not all of them?
Kelly
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
Notice he is saying that those who accept Christ and then fall away [I imagine that some degree of sin is involved there], they are crucifying Christ to themselves all over again and shaming Christ. Now if Christ had died for ALL of mans sins, that is every single one then, Paul would not need to say that would he, since then it would be understood that Christ died for peoples future sins.
The fact is Christ died for all of the world's sins which are committed in ignorance or which they are not really responsible for. These include:
- inherited sin from Adam
- sins committed before knowing of Christ and His commandments.
Willful sinning is not covered by Christ as Paul clearly stated:
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
If you have another passage that says something different please provide the reference.
I thought you previously stated that you believed these passages but clearly you are regressing .. a regressing comedian .. very nice indeed.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtChristianity isn't a religion made by man, dependent on the observance of rituals without reality; it's a relationship, acquired by faith alone in Christ alone. It's much too simple a proposition for those whose intellects resort to willful blindness. ~Bob
If you ask a Muslim what is important in their religion then my experience is that one will get a simple answer: "Allah is God and Mohammed is his Prophet.". Hardly any muslims post here, if any are reading then please forgive me if I have it wrong and correct what I've said.
The vast majority of theists who post here are Christian, so for all the Ch ...[text shortened]... religions contributed. Possibly atheists might like to give a central tenet that they live by.
Note: "What's important?" is your eternal address and the eternal address of your family members. It's a personal choice.
01 Oct 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Paul, why are you quoting Paul? When I quoted Paul you said it was not
Here is what Paul said.
[i]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afres ...[text shortened]... eved these passages but clearly you are regressing .. a regressing comedian .. very nice indeed.
Jesus speaking, so why do you now quote Paul to me?
I asked you about Jesus dying for our sins, did he die for all of them or just
some? Did he die for everyone bodies, except a few, did he die for some
peoples but not all of them, or did he have favorites where he died for all
of one person's sins, but not all of another's?
Kelly
02 Oct 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDo you think describing people who have different beliefs from you as having "intellects [that] resort to wilful blindness" has any effect on them or are you perhaps just preening for the benefit of "the choir"?
Christianity isn't a religion made by man, dependent on the observance of rituals without reality; it's a relationship, acquired by faith alone in Christ alone. It's much too simple a proposition for those whose intellects resort to willful blindness.