If the Tooth Fairy had more historical gravitas and a holy book attached to it, along with a dark history of worshippers being burned at the stake to defend it (accompanied by eye witness accounts from thousands of years ago) would the existence of the Tooth Fairy be the default position and the undeniable truth?
1 edit
@ghost-of-a-duke saidPeople have flown airplanes into buildings believing what they did would score points with the god they wanted to please, they believed in something they thought true and were willing to die for it. Right now there are people around the world siding with people who raped, murdered, and tortured others to score points with the god they worship. Horrible things were done in Jesus's name as well, this is not a reflection on Jesus, but those who are like-minded as they hurt others while trying to reflect the one they wanted to please themselves to by inflicting pain and suffering on others when Christ's message was love.
If the Tooth Fairy had more historical gravitas and a holy book attached to it, along with a dark history of worshippers being burned at the stake to defend it (accompanied by eye witness accounts from thousands of years ago) would the existence of the Tooth Fairy be the default position and the undeniable truth?
There is a distinction between those who hold beliefs and are sentenced to horrible death if they don't deny them, they are not inflicting pain and suffering on others they simply believe. No one I'm aware of in all of history has come to faith in either the Tooth Fairy or Santa and due to this faith were killed for it because they would not recant.
The comparisons belittle the death of Saints in my opinion, walking out one's faith is putting trust in someone/something as true when you cannot produce proof only evidence for it. You believe in a mindlessly caused universe, and for the life of me, I cannot think of one thing a mindlessly caused universe would have in it that could produce a universe with life, thought, morals, material and immaterial in it that you could point to and say this is evidence. Instead, we see order, hierarchy of systems, clearly defined boundaries, and so on in all of the universe that is understandable to us.
@kellyjay saidNo one I'm aware of in all of history has come to faith in either the Tooth Fairy or Santa and due to this faith were killed for it because they would not recant.
People have flown airplanes into buildings believing what they did would score points with the god they wanted to please, they believed in something they thought true and were willing to die for it. Right now there are people around the world siding with people who raped, murdered, and tortured others to score points with the god they worship. Horrible things were done in ...[text shortened]... systems, clearly defined boundaries, and so on in all of the universe that is understandable to us.
What about religions other than Christianity?
1 edit
@kellyjay saidNo I don't. I have told you at least nine times I believe in an eternal (uncaused) universe. Time is a human construction.
You believe in a mindlessly caused universe, and for the life of me, I cannot think of one thing a mindlessly caused universe would have in it that could produce a universe with life, thought, morals, material and immaterial in it that you could point to and say this is evidence.
Why do you repeatedly ignore what I believe and tell me instead what I believe?
Edit: You will no doubt do so again in 6 months time. (Those 6 months being of human construction).
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI have told you that you have to ignore entropy for an eternity prior to this moment of time so the notion of an eternal time where everything is winding down doesn’t agree with an eternal universe, they are in conflict.
No I don't. I have told you at least nine times I believe in an eternal (uncaused) universe. Time is a human construction.
Why do you repeatedly ignore what I believe and tell me instead what I believe?
Edit: You will no doubt do so again in 6 months time. (Those 6 months being of human construction).
You may without any reason or evidence suggest expansion and collapse but you do so in blind faith not observation and study. You think that is one of those factual certainties you claim to have? What does not need to explain away is a beginning.
- Joined
- 14 Jan 19
- Moves
- 4282
@fmf saidIn the end, God created a new earth and new heavens, minus the sea, minus the sun, minus the moon. And so we have the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I don't know why, but you say hello and I say good bye.
It doesn't say anything in the Bible about gravity
I thought perhaps "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" was enough on gravity for KellyJay, and when he says "no one knows what it is", he's being disingenuous. In other words, what KellyJay is actually riffing on is something along the lines of... 'Gravity is something God created, and if you don't concede that, then you don't know what gravity is'.
Why? Because we are stuck in a vicious circle of beginnings and endings.
The question? Who in hell created the circle, in the first place? The root cause!
Why is it that gravity, like the rest of the forces of nature/God, are themselves invisible? Nature is very visible, but the nature of God is invisible, and just as invisible to us are his forces which govern the visible physical universe. God's laws have constants and are absolutes. But like any law, because man was made in the image of God, we have the capacity, and the inclination, to look for loopholes in God's laws too. And therefore we look for wormholes to get to places faster than the speed of light, a constant limited by time. As they say, timing is everything, but only in the visible physical universe. Time is also invisible, although, clearly, its effects are visible.
- Joined
- 14 Jan 19
- Moves
- 4282
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIs that related to....the squeaky wheel gets the grease?
I'll have to ramp up the irritation. 😲
- Joined
- 14 Jan 19
- Moves
- 4282
@kellyjay saidGod is eternal, he changes not! Time is not a force in the eternal. Only time can force changes. And as they say, eternity is timeless! No beginning and no ending.
I have told you that you have to ignore entropy for an eternity prior to this moment of time so the notion of an eternal time where everything is winding down doesn’t agree with an eternal universe, they are in conflict.
You may without any reason or evidence suggest expansion and collapse but you do so in blind faith not observation and study. You think that is one of those factual certainties you claim to have? What does not need to explain away is a beginning.
Biblically, he changes not, is alluding to the eternal nature of God.
For Christ's sake!, literally, his Father changes his mind often. Sometimes he forgives and sometime he doesn't. But for the sake of the elect, those times will be shortened. This shortening is clearly implying a change in his plan. Shortening is also required when baking. And so we have, "baking up a story." Shortcake!
@pettytalk saidGood lord, is everything invisible divine? Even the smell of broccoli?
Why is it that gravity, like the rest of the forces of nature/God, are themselves invisible? Nature is very visible, but the nature of God is invisible, and just as invisible to us are his forces which govern the visible physical universe. God's laws have constants and are absolutes. But like any law, because man was made in the image of God, we have the capacity, and t ...[text shortened]... n the visible physical universe. Time is also invisible, although, clearly, its effects are visible.
@pettytalk saidI'm a little concerned, as that makes perfect sense.
God is eternal, he changes not! Time is not a force in the eternal. Only time can force changes. And as they say, eternity is timeless! No beginning and no ending.
Biblically, he changes not, is alluding to the eternal nature of God.
For Christ's sake!, literally, his Father changes his mind often. Sometimes he forgives and sometime he doesn't. But for the sake of the ...[text shortened]... n his plan. Shortening is also required when baking. And so we have, "baking up a story." Shortcake!
But anyway, to reject the very idea of an eternal universe degrades the argument for an eternal deity.
@kellyjay saidCan you confirm that you understand I believe in an eternal (uncaused) universe and not a mindlessly caused universe as you stated?
I have told you that you have to ignore entropy for an eternity prior to this moment of time so the notion of an eternal time where everything is winding down doesn’t agree with an eternal universe, they are in conflict.
You may without any reason or evidence suggest expansion and collapse but you do so in blind faith not observation and study. You think that is one of those factual certainties you claim to have? What does not need to explain away is a beginning.
A simple 'yes' will be sufficient. (I am not asking if you agree with it or not).