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If nature created man, then nature gets all the credit and criticism for all that which man does, or does not do. The religious man is the product of Nature's evolution mandate in our DNA. Clearly, if there is no God, it has to be Nature which creates and drives us to all we do and think, instinctively. If man has been made with the capacity to have such divine thoughts as believing in the existence of gods, it's also nature which has fashioned us to kill in the name of god, any god, which nature allows us to think possible.
Either way, whatever is thought as being an evil act on the part of man, it's man which bears the blame, and man can then pass down the blame to the creator of man, nature or god, whatever the case may be.
@pettytalk saidIf we define terminal diseases or earthquakes as 'evil' I don't think blame can reasonably put on man. The responsible agent is indeed an imperfect deity or an imperfect world. (The latter is more likely).
If nature created man, then nature gets all the credit and criticism for all that which man does, or does not do. The religious man is the product of Nature's evolution mandate in our DNA. Clearly, if there is no God, it has to be Nature which creates and drives us to all we do and think, instinctively. If man has been made with the capacity to have such divine thoughts as ...[text shortened]... and man can then pass down the blame to the creator of man, nature or god, whatever the case may be.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidObviously!
Good lord, is everything invisible divine? Even the smell of broccoli?
Broccoli we can see, but the smell is a matter for the nose. Without looking, I can tell the difference between broccoli and cauliflower, as they are being cooked up.
Divine invisibility is not a matter of sight only, because all that's divine cannot be perceived by any of the five physical senses. At least that's what I have heard with my mind's ear. The mind is not limited to an eye only, you know! I have a mind with its own senses for perceiving divinity. My poor brain is only for the physical senses, like feeling headaches from magnesium glycinate intake, taken in the hope of causing the much wanted sleep. The physical sleep the brain needs for the accuracy of those senses the rest of the physical body sends to it. However, the mind needs no such rest, as even when the brain is asleep, and unable to sense properly, the mind remains active, and dwells in it's own invisible world of pure imagination, where all is possible.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidStill, it's nature which must be blamed, if there are no gods to cause these natural phenomena. Nature is also responsible for the creation and formation of the man capable of performing all that we believe to be evil, in our personal view.
If we define terminal diseases or earthquakes as 'evil' I don't think blame can reasonably put on man. The responsible agent is indeed an imperfect deity or an imperfect world. (The latter is more likely).
And another thing, is there such a thing as going against nature? Our own nature!
The ability to tell right from wrong, is it a natural ability given to us by Nature itself?
And does nature clearly spell out what is wrong and what is right? If nature causes earthquakes which kill and wound life, is that right, or wrong, in the eyes of a man created by nature?
@pettytalk saidBy nature, not so much. It is more the result of nurture and the things we have learnt and experienced in out given upbringing and society. We are not born with a conscience. A baby doesn't know right from wrong.
The ability to tell right from wrong, is it a natural ability given to us by Nature itself?
@pettytalk saidWe have to adapt to nature. left to its own devices, nature doesn't adapt for us or preoccupy itself with our wellbeing.
And does nature clearly spell out what is wrong and what is right? If nature causes earthquakes which kill and wound life, is that right, or wrong, in the eyes of a man created by nature?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNo it doesn’t by definition God is the prime reality the uncaused cause while the universe isn’t.
I'm a little concerned, as that makes perfect sense.
But anyway, to reject the very idea of an eternal universe degrades the argument for an eternal deity.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe cursed earth was a result of man’s actions.
If we define terminal diseases or earthquakes as 'evil' I don't think blame can reasonably put on man. The responsible agent is indeed an imperfect deity or an imperfect world. (The latter is more likely).
@pettytalk saidWe understand the things of man because we have the spirit of man, while the things of God requires the Spirit of God. It isn’t something we can on our own acquire through human effort.
Obviously!
Broccoli we can see, but the smell is a matter for the nose. Without looking, I can tell the difference between broccoli and cauliflower, as they are being cooked up.
Divine invisibility is not a matter of sight only, because all that's divine cannot be perceived by any of the five physical senses. At least that's what I have heard with my mind's ear. The ...[text shortened]... d remains active, and dwells in it's own invisible world of pure imagination, where all is possible.
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@kellyjay saidAccording to you. - To me, the universe itself is the uncaused elephant in the room.
No it doesn’t by definition God is the prime reality the uncaused cause while the universe isn’t.
Why do you get to set the definition of the prime reality? Your Bible isn't a dictionary we all adhere to.
@kellyjay saidThe garden of Eden story was clearly intended not to be taken literally. (Obviously). Therefore there was no original sin or cursed Earth. Humans are not responsible for things out of our control. Earthquakes or tornados for example. We are simply living on an imperfect planet, due to no God being involved in its creation.
The cursed earth was a result of man’s actions.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidBump for Kelly.
Can you confirm that you understand I believe in an eternal (uncaused) universe and not a mindlessly caused universe as you stated?
A simple 'yes' will be sufficient. (I am not asking if you agree with it or not).
@kellyjay saidSo... people don't share your beliefs only because they don't understand them... because they only have the "spirit of man"... whereas you DO understand them because of the "spirit of God"... which means, "by definition", what you say is true, which is knowledge you did not "acquire through human effort". Got it.
We understand the things of man because we have the spirit of man, while the things of God requires the Spirit of God. It isn’t something we can on our own acquire through human effort.