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Originally posted by @radioactive69Oops. Slight change of mind from the quote bottom of previous page!
Malan or Vince ........have been two of only 3 or 4 performers in the squad.
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21 Dec 17
Hi Bob
Nice to read from an Aussie who actually knows a bit about cricket.
Sadly, have to agree with you regarding Moeen Ali. He is a decent spinner in English conditions, and a dangerous bat, but he us struggling in this series. For some obscure reason our only back up spinner is a very promising 21 year old leggie, but I doubt if we will pitch him in. There were more experienced guys they should have chosen.
It does look like the end of the line for Broad, writing was on the wall last Summer, to be honest. Cook is a mystery. . . loads of Tests under his belt, but still relatively young. Hoping he comes good in last 2 Tests.
Of course, Ben Stokes' unavailability has been abig handicap. He has developed into almost being worth 2 players.
Hoping for a 3-2!
23 Dec 17
"The English supporters have completely disappeared from this forum. Hope they're alright."
Perhaps we've been holidaying!!
The main problem with the English game has been caused by the advent of 50 over and 20/20 cricket.Apart from 1 or 2 players there's just no one now in England who knows how to occupy the crease for long periods.Consequently the team is always under pressure.Before the advent of crash bang cricket(by the way 20/20 isn't cricket it's a totally different game using the same tools), you could rely on the likes of Boycott for example to bat long.If we could rely on the top 5 we could play a quality spin bowler instead of having to play someone down the order who could "bat a bit".also in the bowling department , we are missing a genuine tall aggressive fast bowler or 2 at the moment.Anderson and Broad just aren't good enough on Australian pitches despite their number of test wickets.
Originally posted by @vendaSo the English supporters go on holiday when your team is losing?
"The English supporters have completely disappeared from this forum. Hope they're alright."
Perhaps we've been holidaying!!
The main problem with the English game has been caused by the advent of 50 over and 20/20 cricket.Apart from 1 or 2 players there's just no one now in England who knows how to occupy the crease for long periods.Consequently the team is ...[text shortened]... on and Broad just aren't good enough on Australian pitches despite their number of test wickets.
And you would be world champions if you had a better team?
Its like saying at Johnstone are the best in the world if only we had Messi Ronaldo neymar pogba etc.
Have a good Christmas maybe go on holiday from boxing day. Don't watch the cricket don't want to go on a downer.
Originally posted by @vendaEngland’s problems on this tour have nothing to do with limited overs cricket, nor not having a “Boycott” type player. (No surprises from a Yorkshireman though).
"The English supporters have completely disappeared from this forum. Hope they're alright."
Perhaps we've been holidaying!!
The main problem with the English game has been caused by the advent of 50 over and 20/20 cricket.Apart from 1 or 2 players there's just no one now in England who knows how to occupy the crease for long periods.Consequently the team is ...[text shortened]... on and Broad just aren't good enough on Australian pitches despite their number of test wickets.
England’s problems boil down to 2 main problems.
1. They picked a bowling attack designed for English conditions, not Australian, and the bowlers they have picked haven’t been good enough regardless of the conditions.
and
2. They have picked a batting order that relies on Cook and Root to play anchor roles and have attacking stroke makers bat around them, preferably right down the order to Woakes at 9.
Where they have come unstuck is that Cook has barely made a run, and Stokes isn’t sureing up the middle order. Ali and Woakes simply aren’t doing the business against this Australian attack. Moving Bairstow to 6 was a positive step, but picking bowlers and hoping they can bat a bit to sure up the top order is plain stupid. Stokes is good enough to do both - but it should be seen as a bonus. Expecting Ali and Woakes to do the same consistently is plain lunacy.
Even though Australia’s selectors still get this basic tenet wrong, in Test cricket in Australia, pick your best 6 batsmen, best 4 bowlers, best wicketkeeper. It’s a simple formula that works. Anything on top of that is a bonus. If bowlers 1-4 aren’t getting them out, then Bowler 5 probably won’t either. Might as well be a batsman bowling part timers. Likewise, if a team is reliant on Numbers 8 and 9 making significant runs to prop up an innings, something is wrong.
26 Dec 17
Originally posted by @weststigersbobMy point is regarding the bowling attack they just haven't got anybodyto pick as I said(no tall aggressive opening bowlers)
England’s problems on this tour have nothing to do with limited overs cricket, nor not having a “Boycott” type player. (No surprises from a Yorkshireman though).
England’s problems boil down to 2 main problems.
1. They picked a bowling attack designed for English conditions, not Australian, and the bowlers they have picked haven’t been good enough ...[text shortened]... is reliant on Numbers 8 and 9 making significant runs to prop up an innings, something is wrong.
Regarding the batting the have to rely on Root and Cook as you say because they haven't got anybody else that can build a long innings.
So then you have to ask why this is and the reason is limited over cricket.In limited over cricket you don't need to take wickets to win the game and if you have 8 or 9 players who can go out and thump the ball without having a sound technique you are going to have the ability to score a lot of runs quickly.Test cricket is a different game and good players in the past were blooded in county cricket which was played a lot more and all summer.Now the just play mostly in April and September with the rest of the summer reserved for the crash bang stuff.
26 Dec 17
Originally posted by @roma45You've missed the point my friend.It was a dig at radio who said maybe he was on holiday when Australia lost.I don't believe for 1 second he was.He's just really quiet when the Aussie's aren't winning.
So the English supporters go on holiday when your team is losing?
And you would be world champions if you had a better team?
Its like saying at Johnstone are the best in the world if only we had Messi Ronaldo neymar pogba etc.
Have a good Christmas maybe go on holiday from boxing day. Don't watch the cricket don't want to go on a downer.
27 Dec 17
Originally posted by @venda1. Haven’t got the bowlers.
My point is regarding the bowling attack they just haven't [b]got anybodyto pick as I said(no tall aggressive opening bowlers)
Regarding the batting the have to rely on Root and Cook as you say because they haven't got anybody else that can build a long innings.
So then you have to ask why this is and the reason is limited over cricket.In ...[text shortened]... lay mostly in April and September with the rest of the summer reserved for the crash bang stuff.[/b]
Anderson and Broad are proven high class performers. They were always going to get picked, and at some stage bowl good spells. The issue is with Woakes and Ali. Woakes is a great bowler in English conditions. So is Ali. But these games aren’t being played in England. Why England didn’t pick Overton or Curran from Test 1 is a mystery. The only reason I can think of is that because Stokes wasn’t there, the English selectors believed they had to sure up the batting with Woakes and Ali, and hope that Anderson, Broad and Seamer #3 take the majority of the wickets.
2. Batsmen incapable of long innings
Complete and utter rubbish. Malan scored 140, Bairstow 119. All of England’s top order has made tons in county cricket. If they hadn’t they wouldn’t be there. Name me a cricketer that is outstanding at 20 over or 50 over cricket but is so-so at 1st Class level that has been picked for Test cricket. There isn’t any.
That being said, the days of simply occupying the crease and batting all day and making 70 odd runs are long gone, unless it’s to salvage a draw. Test cricket, like all cricket, is about batsmen making runs. In 90% of the time, the faster the better.
As for Cook and Root - I said they are the ‘anchors’ of th innings. By that I mean they have the class and ability to pace their innings around the other batsmen. Stoneman, Malan and Vince are nowhere as experienced at Test cricket as Cook and Root. Therefore, they are the anchors around which England hoped to build innings. If they fail, then it’s up to the other batsmen to make the runs. Apart from today, it has been the other batsmen who have been making the runs.
27 Dec 17
Originally posted by @weststigersbobI agree test cricket has changed over the years and mostly for the good.Heaven forbid we go back to the days where once the ball had got past the infield the fielders stood and watched while someone in the crowd picked it up from the boundary.The issue is with consistency.O.k, Malan and Bairstow have done well once or twice but England these days just don't have the batting depth of old or even the modern sides(Smith Kallis De villiers,Hayden Langer Ponting)
1. Haven’t got the bowlers.
Anderson and Broad are proven high class performers. They were always going to get picked, and at some stage bowl good spells. The issue is with Woakes and Ali. Woakes is a great bowler in English conditions. So is Ali. But these games aren’t being played in England. Why England didn’t pick Overton or Curran from Test 1 i ...[text shortened]... to make the runs. Apart from today, it has been the other batsmen who have been making the runs.
Why is this?
I think it comes down to not having enough 3 and four day game experience before stepping up to test level and that step is a big one.
You're correct about the bowling.We need a Flintoff or a Harmison
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28 Dec 17
Originally posted by @weststigersbobHi Bob
Name me a cricketer that is outstanding at 20 over or 50 over cricket but is so-so at 1st Class level that has been picked for Test cricket. There isn’t any.
Excellent, well argued post, of which I have quoted just a part.
Agree totally that Stone man, Vince and Malan have grafted long innings in English County cricket. Maybe we do play too much 1 day rubbish, but we are no different to anyone else.
As for you question posed above, I would hazard your own Andrew Symonds? 1st class average of just over 30, very strong 1 day player who got a place in your team in 2007 or so on the back of lots of good ODI performances? To be fair, did OK until the booze got him.
To Venda..... You look at Freddie and Harmmo through rose glasses. Their test bowling average both well over 30. Think you mean you want them at their best, bowling fast, to shake up the Aussies.
Going OK in this 4th test at moment. Let's wait til England finish their first innings before going too optimistic!
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28 Dec 17
[i]Originally posted by @radioactive69Oops!
As you know I've been tipping a 5-0 victory since well before the Ashes started. You should have got on like I did. Will be taking my family on another European trip on the winnings.
Looking forward to kicking your boys all over the ground again in the Boxing Day test.
5-0, here we come !!!!!!!!!!![/b]
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28 Dec 17
Originally posted by @blood-on-the-tracksTypical Limeys. Produce one good innings by one player, and they prance about like they haven't lost the Ashes at all.
Oops!