Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    08 Mar '16 16:27
    A $15 minimum wage is long overdue in the U.S. It will strengthen our economy. http://www.alternet.org/books/15-minimum-wage-what-we-need-and-heres-why-attacks-it-are-bogus?akid=14040.1449952.RTVYvS&rd=1&src=newsletter1052101&t=14
  2. The Catbird's Seat
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    08 Mar '16 16:37
    Originally posted by Phranny
    A $15 minimum wage is long overdue in the U.S. It will strengthen our economy. http://www.alternet.org/books/15-minimum-wage-what-we-need-and-heres-why-attacks-it-are-bogus?akid=14040.1449952.RTVYvS&rd=1&src=newsletter1052101&t=14
    Start a business, and pay your employees that much, regardless of how much they produce. it's your money.

    My suspicion, is that you've never even seriously considered any enterprise, or managed a payroll.

    Have you considered what a minimum wage that high does to those who are already paid that amount based on their production, and abilities?
  3. Standard membervivify
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    08 Mar '16 17:213 edits
    I'm for this if it applies to larger companies such as McDonald's or Walmart, rather than small business owners; but then, I guess it would be considered unfair.
  4. Joined
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    08 Mar '16 17:23
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Start a business, and pay your employees that much, regardless of how much they produce. it's your money.

    My suspicion, is that you've never even seriously considered any enterprise, or managed a payroll.

    Have you considered what a minimum wage that high does to those who are already paid that amount based on their production, and abilities?
    "Start a business, and pay your employees that much, regardless of how much they produce"
    small businesses should be helped through other means, not at the expense of people living on the edge of poverty.
    big business can afford to pay 15$ minimum wage.


    "Have you considered what a minimum wage that high does to those who are already paid that amount based on their production, and abilities?"
    since when does someone negotiate his own salary based on what others make? if you feel you deserve to be paid more, you ask for it. or maybe you are the kind of ashole who would ask for someone else to get a pay cut just because you feel you work more than they do.
  5. Standard membervivify
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    08 Mar '16 17:271 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    or maybe you are the kind of ashole who would ask for someone else to get a pay cut just because you feel you work more than they do.
    This actually happened in the case of Dan Price, the CEO who raised everyone's salary to $70,000 a year (cutting his own income in the process).

    According to an interview he did on the Daily Show, some employees quit because they worked hard to earn 70 grand a year, and were indignant that janitors were making the same as them.

    Human beings are terrible things.
  6. The Catbird's Seat
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    08 Mar '16 17:301 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "Start a business, and pay your employees that much, regardless of how much they produce"
    small businesses should be helped through other means, not at the expense of people living on the edge of poverty.
    big business can afford to pay 15$ minimum wage.


    "Have you considered what a minimum wage that high does to those who are already paid that amount ...[text shortened]... ho would ask for someone else to get a pay cut just because you feel you work more than they do.
    What I did to get out of the minimum wage argument, was to start my own enterprise. Then I got paid what my customers agreed was right.

    Every minimum wage increase is aimed at the very people it professes to want to help. Some marginally productive people, at the old minimum wage lose their jobs, and those are often folks with the least skills, and abilities to find other work.
  7. The Catbird's Seat
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    08 Mar '16 17:39
    Originally posted by vivify
    This actually happened in the case of Dan Price, the CEO who raised everyone's salary to $70,000 a year (cutting his own income in the process).

    According to an interview he did on the Daily Show, some employees quit because they worked hard to earn 70 grand a year, and were indignant that janitors were making the same as them.

    Human beings are terrible things.
    Human beings are terrible things.

    No, we are conditioned by evolution and history to be competitive. It is how we've survived. Competition for breeding, and eating exists throughout nature.

    Experiments in egalitarianism almost always fall flat because people innately know when their work is more vital than that of others. How much more is a chemical engineer worth, than a janitor? Who can be more easily replaced?

    No one dictates who will be lazy slugs. And it isn't all about education. I've seen lots of people with advanced degrees sitting around on welfare.
  8. Cape Town
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    08 Mar '16 17:45
    Originally posted by Phranny
    A $15 minimum wage is long overdue in the U.S. It will strengthen our economy. http://www.alternet.org/books/15-minimum-wage-what-we-need-and-heres-why-attacks-it-are-bogus?akid=14040.1449952.RTVYvS&rd=1&src=newsletter1052101&t=14
    A universal basic income would be even better.
  9. The Catbird's Seat
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    08 Mar '16 17:471 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    A universal basic income would be even better.
    Most modern societies with their welfare systems have that, but if the welfare standard is too high, it discourages those at the bottom from trying to work, or from improving their skills.

    That also is offensive to tradesmen, who often don't have higher education but have worked hard to gain skills that pay better. Anything that doesn't reward extra effort and skill is a fail.
  10. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    08 Mar '16 17:47
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    A universal basic income would be even better.
    Sooner or later, you're going to run out of other people's money.
  11. Cape Town
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    08 Mar '16 17:48
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Experiments in egalitarianism almost always fall flat because people innately know when their work is more vital than that of others.
    Absolute nonsense. The people who get paid the most are usually the least vital. Experiments in egalitarianism almost always fall flat because some people cheat the system.
  12. Cape Town
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    08 Mar '16 17:481 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Sooner or later, you're going to run out of other people's money.
    Evidence please.

    Edit: and one of the philosophies behind a universal basic income is that it isn't 'other peoples money'.
  13. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    08 Mar '16 17:50
    Originally posted by vivify
    I'm for this if it applies to larger companies such as McDonald's or Walmart, rather than small business owners; but then, I guess it would be considered unfair.
    Many employment laws apply only companies above a certain size. You could apply a minimum wage only to companies with more than X employees or more than Y sales revenue.

    Of course, they're going to hire fewer people and will raise the price of the stuff they sell. But if you're willing to live with those costs, you can increase the minimum wage.
  14. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    08 Mar '16 17:51
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Evidence please.

    Edit: and one of the philosophies behind a universal basic income is that it isn't 'other peoples money'.
    Who pays for the universal basic income? Is it someone other than taxpayers?
  15. Standard membervivify
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    08 Mar '16 17:51
    Originally posted by normbenign
    [b]Human beings are terrible things.

    No, we are conditioned by evolution and history to be competitive. It is how we've survived. Competition for breeding, and eating exists throughout nature.

    Experiments in egalitarianism almost always fall flat because people innately know when their work is more vital than that of others. How much more is ...[text shortened]... all about education. I've seen lots of people with advanced degrees sitting around on welfare.[/b]
    We did not survive by competing against each other. In fact, history teaches us the exact opposite: that conflict has only brought us down and continues to hold the human race back.

    Humans evolved as social beings, not lone animals. The employees who complained about the 70 grand wage increase aren't concerned about "competition", they're concerned about ego.
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