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  1. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Aug '16 21:30
    I know it is "race baiting" that will cause innumerable deaths among cops, but the DOJ released a report showing that the Baltimore Police Department routinely engaged in unconstitutional stops and arrests and these were targeted overwhelmingly at black individuals. To those who have bothered to have some knowledge of how policing in conducted in the US this is a "dog bites man" story but some of the behavior is hard to imagine. For example:

    During a ride-along with Justice Department officials, a BPD sergeant instructed a patrol officer to stop a group of young African-American males on a street corner, question them, and order them to
    disperse. When the patrol officer protested that he had no valid reason to stop the group, the sergeant replied “Then make something up.” This incident is far from anomalous. A different BPD
    sergeant posted on Facebook that when he supervises officers in the Northeast District, he encourages them to “clear corners,” a term many officers understand to mean stopping pedestrians
    who are standing on city sidewalks to question and then disperse them by threatening arrest for minor offenses like loitering and trespassing. The sergeant wrote, “I used to say at roll call in NE
    when I ran the shift: Do not treat criminals like citizens. Citizens want that corner cleared.”
    Indeed, countless interviews with community members and officers describe “corner clearing” scenarios, in which BPD officers stop, question, disperse, or arrest individuals in public areas based
    on minimal or no suspicion of highly discretionary offenses.
    Such unlawful stops erode public confidence in law enforcement and escalate street encounters, sometimes resulting in officers deploying unnecessary force or committing additional constitutional violations. For example, on a cold January evening in 2013, an officer approached
    and questioned an African-American man crossing the street in a “high crime area” while wearing a hooded sweatshirt. The officer lacked any specific reason to believe the man was engaged in
    criminal activity, but, according to the incident report prepared by the supervisory officer on the scene, the officer “thought it could be possible that the individual could be out seeking a victim of
    opportunity.”
    44 This unsupported speculation furnishes no basis to conduct a stop. Nonetheless, multiple officers questioned the man and seized a kitchen knife that the man acknowledged carrying.
    To justify the stop, officers also noted that the man put his hands in the pockets of his sweatshirt as they approached.
    However, given that the encounter occurred on a cold January evening and officers observed the man “shivering,” placing hands inside a sweatshirt adds minimally, if at all, to any objective suspicion the officers possessed. See United
    States v. Burton, 228 F.3d 524, 529 (4th Cir. 2000) (holding that where suspect refused to speak with police or remove his
    hand from his pocket, “something more is required to establish reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot”
    United States v. Patterson, 340 F.3d 368, 370–72 (6th Cir. 2003) (holding that officers lacked reasonable suspicion where
    suspect placed hands in his pockets and walked away from police); United States v. Davis, 94 F.3d 1465, 1468–649 (10th
    Cir. 1996) (holding that officers lacked reasonable suspicion to stop a known gang member who ignored officers’ orders
    to take his hands out of his pockets).

    http://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=3010023-BPD-Findings-Report-FINAL p. 30

    Blacks are about three times more likely to be stopped while standing, walking or driving than whites:

    Expressed differently, BPD officers made 520 stops for every 1,000 black residents in Baltimore, but only 180 stops for every 1,000 Caucasian residents.

    p. 48

    Even though stops of blacks are less likely to find illegal contraband:

    During vehicle stops, BPD officers reported finding some type of contraband less than half as often when searching African Americans—in only 3.9 percent of searches of African Americans, compared to 8.5 percent of other searches. Search hit rates during pedestrian stops also exhibited large disparities, with officers finding contraband in only 2.6 percent of African American searches compared to 3.9
    percent for other searches—a 50 percent difference. 61 These results are statistically significant.

    p. 54


    Devastating proof that unconstitutional police practices exist on a systemic basis and discriminatorily target blacks. Maybe we should take steps to stop them rather than attempting to suppress organizations like BLM which bring such information to light.
  2. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    11 Aug '16 21:37
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I know it is "race baiting" that will cause innumerable deaths among cops, but the DOJ released a report showing that the Baltimore Police Department routinely engaged in unconstitutional stops and arrests and these were targeted overwhelmingly at black individuals. To those who have bothered to have some knowledge of how policing in conducted in the US ...[text shortened]... rather than attempting to suppress organizations like BLM which bring such information to light.
    Great book report.
    Did you wish to tell the class your analysis, or are you just here to spout off stats?
  3. 11 Aug '16 21:43 / 1 edit
    Here’s what the data shows about the racial makeup of Baltimore’s finest:

    * Of the 2,745 active duty police officers in the department — 1,445 — more than half are African-American, Hispanic, Asian or Native American, according to data provided by the Baltimore police department to The Daily Caller News Foundation.

    * Four of its top six commanders are either African-American or Hispanic.

    * More than 60 percent of the incumbents at the highest command levels hail from minority communities.

    * Among the 46 Baltimore police officers who hold the rank of captain and above, 25 are from ethnic or racial minority groups. That constitutes 54 percent of the command leadership.

    In other words, Baltimore is a black-majority city led by a police force whose officers are mostly racial minorities as well.

    “I’m not shocked by the numbers. The Baltimore department is representative of the community as a whole at every level of the organization,” said Darrell W. Stephens, executive director of the Major Cities Chiefs Association in an interview with TheDCNF. “It’s not just the command staff. It’s at all the way through.”

    His organization is a professional association of police chiefs and sheriffs representing the largest cities in the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom. Stephens has served at all levels, from a foot cop to a police chief.

    Anthony W. Batts, an African-American, was hired by Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, also African-American, in 2012 after serving as police chief in Oakland and Long Beach, Calif. Rawlings-Blake put Batts in charge of reforming the department.

    Under Batts, Baltimore was one of eight cities participating in an experimental Obama administration police reform program run by the Department of Justice and its Office of Community Oriented Police Services, or COPS. The program was designed to provide policing that was less adversarial and emphasized a cooperative spirit in poor neighborhoods.

    Batts disbanded a tough-on-crime unit called the Violent Crimes Impact Section, the source of many citizen complaints about police brutality against individuals across the racial spectrum.

    He also invited community leaders to participate on official promotion boards for all candidates who sought the rank of captain or higher. Promotions were a contentious issue among minorities who felt they were not fully considered when top leadership positions became available.

    Captain Eric Kowalczyk, now the police department’s chief spokesman, explained what it was like when he sought a promotion from lieutenant to captain. “I had six people from the community who were on my panel,” he said.

    “Community leaders, community association presidents and others asked me very challenging questions about my views on community policing, what it means to me to be a city police officer, my views on crime enforcement,” he said.

    Batts also added an Office of Internal Oversight to the department’s Professional Standards and Accountability Bureau, which investigated charges of police brutality.

    The bureau’s head for the last two-and-a-half years was Deputy Commissioner Jerry Rodriguez, who reported directly to Batts. Rodriguez overhauled the department’s investigation of police shootings, in-custody deaths and use-of-force incidents that resulted in serious injury or death.

    Rodriguez announced his retirement April 15, four days before the death of Freddie Gray, a Baltimore resident with 12 prior arrests. Gray died after being taken into custody in an arrest involving three white and three African-American Baltimore police officers.

    The officers have been charged with multiple offenses, including murder and manslaughter, and the Department of Justice is conducting a “pattern-and-practices” investigation of allegations of racial discrimination in the city’s police department.

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/14/most-baltimore-cops-are-minorities/
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Aug '16 21:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    Here’s what the data shows about the racial makeup of Baltimore’s finest:

    * Of the 2,745 active duty police officers in the department — 1,445 — more than half are African-American, Hispanic, Asian or Native American, according to data provided by the Baltimore police department to The Daily Caller News Foundation.

    * Four of its top six commanders are e ...[text shortened]... ty’s police department.

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/14/most-baltimore-cops-are-minorities/
    What is your point? Should blacks be discriminated against in hiring, too? 63% of Baltimore's population is black, so they are actually underrepresented on the force. That black cops would buy into the prevailing police culture in order to "get along" is hardly surprising.
  5. 11 Aug '16 21:52 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    What is your point? Should blacks be discriminated against in hiring, too? 63% of Baltimore's population is black, so they are actually underrepresented on the force. That black cops would buy into the prevailing police culture in order to "get along" is hardly surprising.
    If blacks are arresting other blacks with black superiors who are police officers and a black mayor, how is this activity motivated by racism? Are they all uncle Toms?

    Wall Street Journal columnist Jason Riley chided the media for focusing on police behavior while omitting the central point after the Baltimore riots, as well as the situation in Ferguson, Mo.

    In an interview with Real Clear Politics’ Carl Cannon, Riley said the media has been “off base” by not focusing on “black criminality” in their coverage, which the columnist refers to as “the one constant.”

    “In terms of what is driving the tension, again, it’s black crime rates,” Riley told Cannon. “Blacks are — and it’s funny — something like a Ferguson goes down, or a Baltimore or what have you, and we start having these conversations that are largely off base. We start talking about the police and police behavior. We start talking about poverty. We start talking about unemployment. We start talking about all kinds of things except black criminality, which is the one constant in all of these cases.”

    “Blacks are about 13 percent of the population, yet commit half of all murders in this country. Blacks are arrested at 2-3 times their numbers in the population for all manner of violent crime, all manner of property crime,” Riley said. “If we want to reduce tensions between law enforcement in these communities, we have to do something about these crime rates. If we want to reduce negative perceptions of young black men in society, we have to do something about behavior that is driving those perceptions. Yet, every time we get one of these flare ups, I think we start having the wrong discussions.”

    “We love to talk about the black incarceration rate and how outrageously high it is as if it has no connection to the black crime rate,” he added. “I think you can’t talk about one without talking about the other.”
  6. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Aug '16 21:59
    Originally posted by whodey
    If blacks are arresting other blacks with black superiors who are police officers and a black mayor, how is this activity motivated by racism? Are they all uncle Toms?

    Wall Street Journal columnist Jason Riley chided the media for focusing on police behavior while omitting the central point after the Baltimore riots, as well as the situation in Ferguson, ...[text shortened]... black crime rate,” he added. “I think you can’t talk about one without talking about the other.”
    Black crime rates have nothing to do with illegal and unconstitutional stops, searches and arrests. Nor do they justify them.

    It's amusing that Mr. Anti-State yourself have no problems with those in the costume of the State routinely violating the people's rights. But I guess it's mainly blacks getting their rights violated in this manner so it's no big deal to you.
  7. 11 Aug '16 22:02
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Black crime rates have nothing to do with illegal and unconstitutional stops, searches and arrests. Nor do they justify them.

    It's amusing that Mr. Anti-State yourself have no problems with those in the costume of the State routinely violating the people's rights. But I guess it's mainly blacks getting their rights violated in this manner so it's no big deal to you.
    In a war zone, people are less apt to worry about the Constitution than they are survival.

    So what if breaking up meetings on corners is saving lives statistically, just for the sake of argument?
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Aug '16 22:10
    Originally posted by whodey
    In a war zone, people are less apt to worry about the Constitution than they are survival.

    So what if breaking up meetings on corners is saving lives statistically, just for the sake of argument?
    What if police routinely entering People's houses and looking around saved lives statistically? Is there any place for individual rights in your philosophy?
  9. 11 Aug '16 22:14
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    What if police routinely entering People's houses and looking around saved lives statistically? Is there any place for individual rights in your philosophy?
    Does forcing people to buy health care save lives?
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Aug '16 22:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    Does forcing people to buy health care save lives?
    Dodging as usual.

    The fact is your vision of restrictions on State power doesn't seem to apply to police esp. when they are violating the rights of a racial or other minority.

    Since you know I opposed the individual mandate, your question is both off-topic and pointless.
  11. 11 Aug '16 22:24 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Dodging as usual.

    The fact is your vision of restrictions on State power doesn't seem to apply to police esp. when they are violating the rights of a racial or other minority.

    Since you know I opposed the individual mandate, your question is both off-topic and pointless.
    It's not dodging in the least.

    What freedoms should be removed from society to make it "safer"?

    We now have to police people who don't buy health insurance.

    Build more jails and hire more police.
  12. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Aug '16 22:39
    Originally posted by whodey
    It's not dodging in the least.

    What freedoms should be removed from society to make it "safer"?

    We now have to police people who don't buy health insurance.

    Build more jails and hire more police.
    Why don't you answer your own question?

    Should police have any restrictions on what they do? After all, you can always argue, as you just did, that illegal and unconstitutional police activity A "saved lives".

    Some TV show (I forget which) had a character say of a certain politician: "He won't be happy until this country has half the people in prison being guarded by the other half." Is this your American Dream as well?
  13. 11 Aug '16 22:43
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Why don't you answer your own question?

    Should police have any restrictions on what they do? After all, you can always argue, as you just did, that illegal and unconstitutional police activity A "saved lives".

    Some TV show (I forget which) had a character say of a certain politician: "He won't be happy until this country has half the people in prison being guarded by the other half." Is this your American Dream as well?
    It is impossible for an amoral people to be free.

    That's why they build prisons.

    Having said that, I also agree that such people should first be caught breaking the law before taking away the said freedoms. Of course, that is hard to do with a broken criminal justice system that seems to be a revolving door.
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    11 Aug '16 22:49
    Originally posted by whodey
    It is impossible for an amoral people to be free.

    That's why they build prisons.

    Having said that, I also agree that such people should first be caught breaking the law before taking away the said freedoms. Of course, that is hard to do with a broken criminal justice system that seems to be a revolving door.
    Is this where we go back to your proposal to have the State force a "moral" curriculum of its choosing on young children?

    Actually the US has done an unprecedented amount of jailing people over the last four decades and does so at a rate far above any other developed country. So if the criminal justice system is "broken" it is not in the way you are complaining of.
  15. 11 Aug '16 22:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Is this where we go back to your proposal to have the State force a "moral" curriculum of its choosing on young children?

    Actually the US has done an unprecedented amount of jailing people over the last four decades and does so at a rate far above any other developed country. So if the criminal justice system is "broken" it is not in the way you are complaining of.
    Heck no, they should continue to strip morality out of the education system and just teach them how to put rubbers on bananas.

    As Hillary once said, gangs are like families to these black kids. That's the only moral instruction they need