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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    24 Nov '12 08:12
    To dispel the myth that only disgruntled right-wing business owners are cutting hours in revenge for Obama being reelected:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/20/ccac-obamacare_n_2165383.html

    Can't get more Liberal than a college campus, and can't get more Democrat than Allegheny County, PA.
  2. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    24 Nov '12 20:22
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    To dispel the myth that only disgruntled right-wing business owners are cutting hours in revenge for Obama being reelected:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/20/ccac-obamacare_n_2165383.html

    Can't get more Liberal than a college campus, and can't get more Democrat than Allegheny County, PA.
    That is unfortunate, but I will make two points:

    1) This is not really new. Colleges and universities in the U.S. have been relying increasingly on adjunct faculty for years as a means of avoiding having to grant benefits (health care being foremost) to the people who have effectively become the backbone of American undergraduate education. So this is the same phenomenon, cranked up a notch. I used to be an "adjunct," so I know how this works.

    2) The Affordable Care Act is like at least 90% of every piece of legislation that has been passed in the history of the nation: it has some unfortunate unintended consequences for some. Even the most fervent proponents of the PPACA knew, and openly acknowledged, that the actual implementation of the law will require course corrections and alterations in the years to come. Your continual posting of threads like these merely affirm the inanely obvious.
  3. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    24 Nov '12 22:43
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    That is unfortunate, but I will make two points:

    1) This is not really new. Colleges and universities in the U.S. have been relying increasingly on adjunct faculty for years as a means of avoiding having to grant benefits (health care being foremost) to the people who have effectively become the backbone of American undergraduate education. So this i ...[text shortened]... ears to come. Your continual posting of threads like these merely affirm the inanely obvious.
    Well, you guys showed me that we're in the 'crawl' phase of the 'crawl-walk-run' process. Since you're a professor, you'll appreciate the process. Teach theory, demonstrate real-world examples of theory. Practical application. In this case, we have to also enter a remedial phase (as was clearly evidenced by the election results). So actually, we're in the 'rock back and forth' phase.

    I'm helping you by tying practical applications of economic theory to their corresponding real-world consequences. This first phase is going to last a while; as I mentioned, probably the spring jobs report. The crawl phase will go from then to about a year later, when Obamacare officially kicks in and people are sill asking why things aren't really any better. But I promise I'll say I told you so.

    Think of it as a continuing conversation, the next phase in an education process. like what you used to do.

    By the way, I don't recall anybody saying they knew this would have unintended consequences. Can you find that for me? Because what I recall is Nancy Pelosi saying, "You'll have to pass the bill to find out what's in it".

    Wish I had helped write that bill. I'd have written her very sizable estate into my possession. After all - people should pay more taxes, right? Let's start with the Limousine Liberals putting their money where their mouths are. Nancy and Harry setting the example by writing checks to the US Treasury for what they think is fair would be a beacon of leadership and unifying symbol that we're all in this together.
  4. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    24 Nov '12 23:03
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Well, you guys showed me that we're in the 'crawl' phase of the 'crawl-walk-run' process. Since you're a professor, you'll appreciate the process. Teach theory, demonstrate real-world examples of theory. Practical application. In this case, we have to also enter a remedial phase (as was clearly evidenced by the election results). So actually, we're ...[text shortened]... a beacon of leadership and unifying symbol that we're all in this together.
    I thought you were going to be watching a game by now, dumbass. Or maybe you are, and the beer has begun to soak in between the last two neurons clinging to life in your skull amidst a moonscape of talk-radio napalmed brain rot. I mean, you're surely trying to say something here, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it is.
  5. 24 Nov '12 23:04
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Well, you guys showed me that we're in the 'crawl' phase of the 'crawl-walk-run' process. Since you're a professor, you'll appreciate the process. Teach theory, demonstrate real-world examples of theory. Practical application. In this case, we have to also enter a remedial phase (as was clearly evidenced by the election results). So actually, we're ...[text shortened]... a beacon of leadership and unifying symbol that we're all in this together.
    What a gibberish answer. You ramble from some weird inapplicable theory/practice to the well-known paradigm that all legislation has unintended consequences to the estate of Nancy Pelosi. Incredibly incoherent.
  6. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    25 Nov '12 00:31
    Originally posted by moon1969
    What a gibberish answer. You ramble from some weird inapplicable theory/practice to the well-known paradigm that all legislation has unintended consequences to the estate of Nancy Pelosi. Incredibly incoherent.
    No, you're not smart enough to a) keep up with me or b) understand how the real world works.
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    25 Nov '12 00:38
    Now more people can go to the doctor there are jobs in medicine too..
  8. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    25 Nov '12 01:04 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    I thought you were going to be watching a game by now, dumbass. Or maybe you are, and the beer has begun to soak in between the last two neurons clinging to life in your skull amidst a moonscape of talk-radio napalmed brain rot. I mean, you're surely trying to say something here, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it is.
    Let me help you again. Cliff's Notes:

    1. You clearly do not understand how the world works. I am going to help you understand how the world works by tying idiotic Liberal economic theory to idiotic Liberal legislation and it's practical effects. Like Obamacare.

    2. Over the next four years you are going to be provided with ample evidence of how your utopian policies do not work in the real world. Whether you can break from your ideology to absorb those lessons remains to be seen.

    3. What kind of idiot says, "You'll have to pass it to find out what's in it" about historic legislation? What kind of idiot thinks having a senior elected official who would say something like that is acceptable?

    4. Since Nancy Pelosi was not interested in the content of the ACA, I wish I would have helped write it. It could have contained a passage that she would have found very disagreeable.

    5. I have no patience for Limousine Liberals who do not live by the policies they advocate. There should be no such thing as a wealthy Liberal.

    Is that clear enough? Words small enough? Sentences short enough?

    EDIT: And now you've scared me away. Kickoff is upon us.
  9. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    25 Nov '12 01:16
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Now more people can go to the doctor there are jobs in medicine too..
    Were that that were true. It's more like people will be forced to engage in commerce or pay a fine, and people with plans that pay lower premiums (like Medicare) will not be seen by doctors.

    So Soothfast - doctors are already planning to retire, accept fewer Medicare patients, or other measures that will limit their exposure to government medicine. If this is happening now, what do you think will happen when if, God forbid, your single payer system arrives on our shores? More doctors, or fewer? Better care, or worse care? Don't give me what you think ahould happen; think for a minute about what would happen.
  10. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    25 Nov '12 04:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So Soothfast - doctors are already planning to retire, accept fewer Medicare patients, or other measures that will limit their exposure to government medicine. If this is happening now, what do you think will happen when if, God forbid, your single payer system arrives on our shores? More doctors, or fewer? Better care, or worse care? Don't give me what you think ahould happen; think for a minute about what would happen.
    Gee, all I can seem to think about is how every other functioning Western democracy in the world manages to provide health care for all its citizens, and most of them are doing fine, have healthy economies, longer life expectancies, and lower infant mortality rates. Hmm. Based on these empirical observations, my guess is that there is something wrong with your analyses.
  11. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    25 Nov '12 04:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    Gee, all I can seem to think about is how every other functioning Western democracy in the world manages to provide health care for all its citizens, and most of them are doing fine and have healthy economies. Based on this empirical observation, my guess is that there is something wrong with your analyses.
    They - they're - wha? Doing fine?

    They have healthy economies?

    What?
  12. 25 Nov '12 04:40
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    To dispel the myth that only disgruntled right-wing business owners are cutting hours in revenge for Obama being reelected:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/20/ccac-obamacare_n_2165383.html

    Can't get more Liberal than a college campus, and can't get more Democrat than Allegheny County, PA.
    Of course colleges are liberal. The argument that right wing business owners are cutting back because of being disgruntled come from weak minds that cannot even comprehend simple mathematics. Same people that call others racist if they don't go along with the system. Same people that smoke a joint before heading off to have an abortion. Same people that want the government to dictate everything and steal money from one person to give to them. Same lazy welfare case people that are taking antidepressants on the working class dime. Same people that believe the state owns our children. Same folks that believe it is more important that gay people should be able to get married than protecting the constitution. The same people that have made every good thing bad and every bad thing acceptable. The liars that have allowed communists in the whitehouse. Last but not least, the folks that would rather an animal have more rights than people. Why even listen to their ramblings?
  13. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    25 Nov '12 04:54 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    They - they're - wha? Doing fine?

    They have healthy economies?

    What?
    Yeah, I know -- a shocker. Aside from Western democracies such as Sweden, the U.K., Australia, and Germany, you can even throw in countries like Japan and South Korea.
  14. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    25 Nov '12 04:56
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Of course colleges are liberal. The argument that right wing business owners are cutting back because of being disgruntled come from weak minds that cannot even comprehend simple mathematics. Same people that call others racist if they don't go along with the system. Same people that smoke a joint before heading off to have an abortion. Same people that ...[text shortened]... s that would rather an animal have more rights than people. Why even listen to their ramblings?
    Hey, Sasquatch, looks like you have yourself a drinkin' buddy here. First round of Kool-Aid is on me!
  15. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    25 Nov '12 05:26 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    Yeah, I know -- a shocker. Aside from Western democracies such as Sweden, the U.K., Australia, and Germany, you can even throw in countries like Japan and South Korea.
    Great Britain got a boost from the Olympics, but had been in recession. Their economy grew by 1% in the quarter, but showed no year-over-year growth.

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20078231

    The German economy has a year-over-year growth rate of 0.3% from 1993-2012.

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth

    The OECD says that Germany will have already slipped back into recession by now:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/07/business/global/oecd-warns-of-recession-in-germany.html

    The Eurozone as a whole contracted by 0.10% in the fourth quarter of 2012.

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/gdp-growth

    That takes care of those "western democracies you say are doing fine.

    Japan's economy is growing. You got one out of twenty-five right, give or take.

    But let's look at Britain's health care system, the one you so love. Earlier this year major reforms were pushed through:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-reforms-finally-become-law-7592991.html

    The overarching intent was for the government to save £60 billion a year. Seems like a pittance today. Almost laughable.

    But, there was a lot of controversy surrounding the reform, as you might expect. Fully half of all British general practitioners believed they would be able to meet the NHs target of 18 weeks for routine treatments.

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17604351

    Did you pick up on that? Eighteen weeks for routine treatments?

    By the way, here's an informative article on the single-payer system you so covet, it's quite a read:

    http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/19/nhs-rationing-gps?cat=commentisfree&type=article