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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    14 Mar '19 20:381 edit
    It's absurd for a person (typically a rich white person) to boast that being
    accepted into Harvard, for instance, 'proves' that one's exceptionally
    intelligent when all that it may show that one was born into a wealthy
    well-connected family favored by Harvard's (rich white) leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/13/rich-kids-top-college-admissions

    "The perfectly legal – but immoral – ways rich kids get into top colleges
    When it comes to admissions to elite schools, money can all but
    guarantee access to those who can afford it."

    "That can hardly be surprising in a landscape where, at five different
    Ivy League schools, more students came from the top 1% of the income
    scale than from the entire bottom 60%."

    "Take Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior aide,
    who was admitted to Harvard – generally considered the nation’s
    most prestigious university – after his father made a $2.5m donation
    to the school, despite the younger Kushner’s “less than stellar”
    high school academic record."

    Harvard has been vehemently arguing (in court) that its admissions
    are based upon academic merit and that it would not discriminate
    against an academically excellent student from a poor Asian immigrant
    family in favor of an academically mediocre student from a wealthy
    well-connected white family.

    Harvard has found that, on average, Asian American applicants have clearly
    the lowest scores on its subjective 'personality tests' that it uses as
    part of its admissions criteria. I would submit that Asian Americans
    have 'inferior' personalities (according to Harvard) on account of
    the prejudices of Harvard's admissions people (few, if any, who seem
    to be Asian American) or its leadership's need to find a rationalization
    to exclude academically superior Asian American students in favor
    of other applicants who are richer or more politically desirable.

    "Daniel Golden exposed Kushner’s path to Harvard in 2006 in his work
    The Price of Admission: How America’s Ruling Class Buys Its Way into Elite Colleges.
    In the book, Golden found that among a committee culled from
    Harvard’s 400 biggest givers, including some who were childless or
    too young to have college-bound children, fully half the big donors
    had a child enrolled at the school. Kushner, the scion of a real estate empire
    worth billions, has denied that his acceptance had anything to do with the donation."

    "Kahlenberg says the economics of these decisions are really quite simple.
    “Colleges say: ‘We’ve got these really valuable slots, and we’re going to
    leverage it either through squeezing our alumni for donations or trying
    to get wealthy individuals who have no previous connection with the university to donate.’”

    "Another common practice is legacy admissions, whereby applicants
    with family ties to a university are given preferential treatment.
    A 2011 study of admissions decisions at 30 highly selective colleges and
    universities found that legacy status accounted for a more than
    threefold increase in acceptance.

    Kahlenberg, who calls legacy admissions a form of “legalized bribery”,
    adds that universities especially extend those considerations to alumni who donate."

    Legacy admissions almost always benefit students from affluent white families.

    Ron Unz (a conservative white American Jew who graduated from Harvard)
    has written that IF Harvard's admissions were based only upon academic
    merit, then he would expect to see a major increase in Asian American
    students and a major decrease in Jewish students (who often are
    well-connected to Harvard's disproportionately Jewish leadership).
  2. Joined
    05 Nov '06
    Moves
    81235
    14 Mar '19 23:07
    @duchess64 said
    It's absurd for a person (typically a rich white person) to boast that being
    accepted into Harvard, for instance, 'proves' that one's exceptionally
    intelligent when all that it may show that one was born into a wealthy
    well-connected family favored by Harvard's (rich white) leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/13/rich-kids-top-college-admissions
    ...[text shortened]... n Jewish students (who often are
    well-connected to Harvard's disproportionately Jewish leadership).
    rates right up there with getting in based on nothing more than skin color doesn't it?
  3. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    14 Mar '19 23:14
    @mott-the-hoople said
    rates right up there with getting in based on nothing more than skin color doesn't it?
    Being white often does help an academically mediocre applicant but being
    white AND wealthy (and well-connected) tends to help much more.

    I expect that most Americans (who tend to be anti-intellectual) could not care less about
    'academic merit' as long as people from their favorite groups get preferential treatment.
  4. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    14 Mar '19 23:24
    @duchess64 said
    It's absurd for a person (typically a rich white person) to boast that being
    accepted into Harvard, for instance, 'proves' that one's exceptionally
    intelligent when all that it may show that one was born into a wealthy
    well-connected family favored by Harvard's (rich white) leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/13/rich-kids-top-college-admissions
    ...[text shortened]... n Jewish students (who often are
    well-connected to Harvard's disproportionately Jewish leadership).
    Many people who have been rejected by Harvard are more intelligent and industrious
    than many people who boast of having been admitted by Harvard.
  5. Joined
    28 Feb '19
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    4750
    15 Mar '19 00:10
    I asked the united negro college fund to send me to school. I was denied. I'm white.
    I asked where the united white college fund was and I was told I'm already privileged.
  6. Joined
    28 Feb '19
    Moves
    4750
    15 Mar '19 00:15
    ...been dirt poor my whole life.
    Listening to non-whites complain about not being white.
    Y'all can have my white skin. I want darker skin so I can complain all the time.
  7. Subscriberjoe shmo
    Strange Egg
    podunk, PA
    Joined
    10 Dec '06
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    15 Mar '19 01:26
    @Duchess64
    Why didn't these rich white people simply purchase their kids way into the ivy league? If its set up they way you say it is, why bother cheating?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-cheating-scandal-first-lawsuits-filed-students-elite-schools-n983211
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Joined
    08 Aug '03
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    15 Mar '19 02:10
    @rowin-side said
    I asked the united negro college fund to send me to school. I was denied. I'm white.
    I asked where the united white college fund was and I was told I'm already privileged.
    What's your point?
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
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    2120
    15 Mar '19 03:53
    @joe-shmo said
    @Duchess64
    Why didn't these rich white people simply purchase their kids way into the ivy league? If its set up they way you say it is, why bother cheating?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-cheating-scandal-first-lawsuits-filed-students-elite-schools-n983211
    Joe-shmo keeps failing (informal) tests of intelligence.

    "Take Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior aide, who was admitted
    to Harvard – generally considered the nation’s most prestigious university – after
    his father made a $2.5m donation to the school, despite the younger Kushner’s
    “less than stellar” high school academic record.""

    Many rich white parents may not be rich enough to donate $2.5 million to Harvard, but
    they can afford to pay tens of thousands of USD to people who help their children cheat.

    If Harvard were less dishonest, then it should put some admission slots up for auction.
    And why not put some undergraduate degrees up for auction too?
    Then an extremely stupid 'student' from an extremely wealthy family could boast
    about one's 'Harvard degree' without having to waste four years (or more) of time
    going through the motions of attending class and paying smarter people to write one's papers.
  10. Subscriberkmax87
    Land of Free
    Health and Education
    Joined
    09 Oct '04
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    82196
    15 Mar '19 05:53
    @Duchess64

    At what point does a Harvard degree become a worthless piece of paper? Are we expected to believe that the rich only buy their way in but once in their money can't buy any further academic favours?
  11. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
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    3118
    15 Mar '19 07:44
    @kmax87 said
    @Duchess64

    At what point does a Harvard degree become a worthless piece of paper? Are we expected to believe that the rich only buy their way in but once in their money can't buy any further academic favours?
    What "further academic favours" do you have in mind?

    An undergraduate degree, especially in a non-STEM field, doesn't prove much beyond the ability to sit still for prolonged periods of time and show up at college every once in a while. You cannot buy yourself into graduate school though, at least not in the serious sciences.
  12. Joined
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    7285
    15 Mar '19 08:57
    @kazetnagorra said
    What "further academic favours" do you have in mind?

    An undergraduate degree, especially in a non-STEM field, doesn't prove much beyond the ability to sit still for prolonged periods of time and show up at college every once in a while. You cannot buy yourself into graduate school though, at least not in the serious sciences.
    These kind of people tend to go into business "studies", though, where you definitely can. (After all, it's kinda the point.)
  13. Joined
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    8799
    15 Mar '19 09:21
    @duchess64 said
    It's absurd for a person (typically a rich white person) to boast that being
    accepted into Harvard, for instance, 'proves' that one's exceptionally
    intelligent when all that it may show that one was born into a wealthy
    well-connected family favored by Harvard's (rich white) leadership.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/13/rich-kids-top-college-admissions
    ...[text shortened]... n Jewish students (who often are
    well-connected to Harvard's disproportionately Jewish leadership).
    You started a thread on this ~ January 2017, if I remember correctly. There was also another one relatively recently, probably around 2 months ago.

    I responded in 2017 about a friend of mine from school (from a wealthy and powerful family) who applied to Harvard and felt he got accepted because of his parents after Harvard offered them places on their Africa board.

    He ended up going to Columbia, where he felt that he had got in on merit (he is a mathematical and literary genius) and the admissions system was less racist.
  14. Joined
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    4750
    15 Mar '19 12:10
    @suzianne said
    What's your point?
    I'm really hungover.
    Can you make breakfast?
  15. Joined
    02 Jan '06
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    10087
    15 Mar '19 12:50
    @mott-the-hoople said
    rates right up there with getting in based on nothing more than skin color doesn't it?
    All she had to do was say that they were 1/1023 part Indian.
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