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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    23 Apr '11 07:22
    This is a sad though well written report:

    http://www.yapi.org/rpchildsextourism.pdf

    One of the most precious things is childhood, and Jesus
    himself made clear how he felt about child abusers (see
    Matthew 18 for more details).

    What can we do to stop child sex tourism? I have an idea
    I would like to put to debate here, if you may. Since the
    reports point out that 80% of the abuse takes place by
    people from the first world in third world countries, why
    not make a database of people from developed countries
    "spontaneously" living in third world countries?

    That is, in countries like Cambodia, Thailand, or Indonesia,
    to identify the expat community and somehow see why
    they are there and what they do.

    Any ideas?
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Apr '11 08:28
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Any ideas?
    Among their policies, they probably need to put a good deal of emphasis on tackling the 20% of abuse that the report claims is perpetrated by local people. It is this locally-based abuse that creates cover and a kind of 'infrastructure' for foreigners coming in seeking opportunities to abuse children. If local law enforcement can remove this cover, sex tourists become far more visible and vulnerable as they take the risk of pursuing transactions with people whose discretion and 'understanding' they cannot be sure of.
  3. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    23 Apr '11 08:32
    http://www.crin.org/violence/search/closeup.asp?infoID=19897

    Sexual exploitation of children in the tourism industry is rampant
    in Southeast Asia despite efforts to curb the crime, child-protection
    groups said on Wednesday. In Indonesia, child sex tourism is a major
    problem on the resort islands of Bali and Batam, said Irwanto, chairman
    of the National Coalition against Sexual Exploitation of Children.

    "If we ignore the problem, Bali's tourism industry could be threatened
    because it would be associated with child sex tourism," Irwanto told an
    international conference.

    A researcher for the coalition, who declined to be identified, said Bali
    had become a haven for international paedophile rings.

    "They travel around Bali to look for poor children as their targets in
    areas such as Karangasem," the researcher said.

    Irwanto said poverty was one of the reasons children were lured
    into prostitution.

    "In some case children could be lured into sexual exploitation by
    enticing them with mobile phones, a nice house and other facilities," he said.
  4. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    23 Apr '11 08:33
    Originally posted by FMF
    they probably need to put a good deal of emphasis on tackling the 20% of abuse that the report claims is perpetrated by local people.
    Interesting idea, indeed.

    ...

    Out of curiosity, you're not a native Indonesian, are you?
  5. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    23 Apr '11 08:35
    World Vision has a child sex tourism program which looks very,
    very professional:

    http://www.worldvision.org/content.nsf/learn/globalissues-stp

    I would recommend everybody to support these highly
    commendable endeavors.
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Apr '11 08:48 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Interesting idea, indeed.

    ...

    Out of curiosity, you're not a native Indonesian, are you?
    I'm British. And I did some work for World Vision a few years ago. On their "child sex tourism prevention project" page you'll note that they don't mention Indonesia, although this does not mean that the problem here (in Indonesia) should be understated.

    One of the reasons for World Vision not including Indonesia alongside Thailand and Cambodia [and the others mentioned], perhaps, is because there isn't the same degree of turning a blind eye to sexual abuse of children here.

    We quite often see - on TV news for example - stories about child abusers and child rapists here getting beaten to death by members of the community before the police even get there. The massive tourist industry in Bali, however, provides some cover and facilitates some child sex tourism, but it is not ostentatious.

    The same cannot be said, I think, about Cambodia and Thailand , where there may be a 'tradition' of turning a blind eye that is more pervasive and stretches back further.
  7. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    23 Apr '11 08:58
    Originally posted by FMF
    I'm British.
    Speaking of which, there is a British charity doing a great
    job, in my humble opinion:

    http://www.ecpat.org.uk/

    They featured in this piece of the BBC:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7563456.stm

    I worked with a Latin American charity doing something
    similar, as the problem in Latin America is quite serious,
    particularly in Cuba and Mexico.
  8. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    23 Apr '11 08:59 / 1 edit
    By the way, is that child in your photo related to you in any way?

    Edit. In my experience, I find people with children more sensitive
    towards this problem. In Latin America there is an 'unwritten rule'
    about letting single people join those charities. That much has the
    paranoia reached, given how serious the problem is. I find it very
    sad, but understandable.
  9. 23 Apr '11 09:00
    The main problem is a lack of local enforcement.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Apr '11 09:13
    Originally posted by Seitse
    In my experience, I find people with children more sensitive towards this problem.
    Can't say that I agree. I think the revulsion is pretty much universal and instinctive. Money corrupts though. So as prosperity prevails against poverty in those countries mentioned, I would expect to see the problem wane or perhaps affect less people.
  11. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    23 Apr '11 18:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The main problem is a lack of local enforcement.
    So, are you saying that the main problem is not adults
    preferring to rape children over having a healthy, voluntary
    relationship with another consenting adult?

    Edit. Even sadder, i.e. adults from developed countries, where
    education and a civilized way of life is at hand, preying on
    hungry, uneducated and exploited children from the third world.
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Apr '11 23:50
    Originally posted by Seitse
    So, are you saying that the main problem is [b]not adults
    preferring to rape children over having a healthy, voluntary
    relationship with another consenting adult?[/b]
    Condemning the acts is not a 'solution'. Making law enforcement more effective, as KazetNagorra suggests, is.
  13. 24 Apr '11 04:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Can't say that I agree. I think the revulsion is pretty much universal and instinctive. Money corrupts though. So as prosperity prevails against poverty in those countries mentioned, I would expect to see the problem wane or perhaps affect less people.
    So as prosperity prevails against poverty they problem will wane?

    But I thought these child molesters came from "rich" countries. If law enforcement were adequate in these "rich" countries, why then do they still have their freedom to go to the third world to do more of the same?

    At least none of the third world countries created MAMBLA.
  14. 24 Apr '11 04:06
    Originally posted by FMF
    Condemning the acts is not a 'solution'. Making law enforcement more effective, as KazetNagorra suggests, is.
    But isn't enforcing laws a way to condemn certain actions? How can the two be mutually exclusive?
  15. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    24 Apr '11 04:43
    Originally posted by whodey
    So as prosperity prevails against poverty they problem will wane? But I thought these child molesters came from "rich" countries.
    We're talking about child sex tourism in poor countries.

    But I thought these child molesters came from "rich" countries. If law enforcement were adequate in these "rich" countries, why then do they still have their freedom to go to the third world to do more of the same?

    What are you talking about? You want to take away the freedom of people who have not yet committed crimes? Seriously, what is it you're trying to say?