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  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Aug '09 20:56 / 1 edit
    Four articles today, 3 from the top 3 American newspapers (well, 3 of the top 4 with the Washington post) and one by the Democratic ex mayor of New York.

    All either critical of the bill or observing that the administration is on the defensive on the issue.

    And, no, I didn't cherry pick these. These are the first 4 opinion articles I found from neutral, credible sources.

    http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unamerican-attacks-cant-derail-health-care-debate-.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/health/policy/11health.html?_r=2&hp

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342653428074782.html

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/11/falling_out_of_love_with_barack_obama_97843.html


    It has not been a good week for the President. I'll bet he wishes this were like France where (or so they tell me) everything shuts down in August.
  2. 11 Aug '09 21:54
    I haven't read the articles yet - I'll take a look later, but I think there is too much time/effort being spent responding to the lies such as "death panels" and forced/encouraged euthenasia etc... that there isn't any time being spent actually rationally discussing the actual proposals.

    Odd thing seeing a "righty" posting a NY times article and referring to it as neutral
  3. 11 Aug '09 22:45
    The first article mentioned the various hooligan tactics being used to drown out actual debate. I agree that they are unAmerican and I would hope the GOP would be vehemently denouncing these tactics. Most fifth-graders behave much better than this.

    The NY Times article made some extremely interesting points. Dem officials admit that they were caught off-guard by the intensity of the opposition - and some supporters wonder if the relative ease with which the stimulus bill passed might have fooled Obama into thinking that healthcare would be just as easy.

    There is absolutely no excuse for this. After what happened in 1994, you'd think that Obama would have had a very long talk with the Clintons about how incredibly difficult any healthcare reform would be, and he should have been prepared for every possible attack. They could have played excerpts of things that Rush Limbaugh and company had to say in 1994 -- they could have hauled out all the old ads - and kept playing them until Obama knew exactly what he would be facing.

    the wsj.com article took Obama to task for having a tone that was overly "bullying" and "moralizing" - and emphasized that people don't want to be told to do something they're not sure about because it'll "be good for them".

    A very legitimate point. It does seem like there's been too much vague sermonizing. People want to see detailed presentations that will explain exactly what the plan is going to do, how it will work, and what the costs will be. Obama & Co haven't done this.

    Which brings me to the realclearpolitics article which mention that Obama himself has not proposed any bill himself, leaving it up to Congress to propose a number of different things. This is a failure of leadership. There is NO WAY that Obama is EVER going to be offer a coherent explanation to the American people until he comes up with something he can call "his own bill". Until that happens, all Obama can do is offer the vague patronizing sermons that most people don't like.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Aug '09 22:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I haven't read the articles yet - I'll take a look later, but I think there is too much time/effort being spent responding to the lies such as "death panels" and forced/encouraged euthenasia etc... that there isn't any time being spent actually rationally discussing the actual proposals.

    Odd thing seeing a "righty" posting a NY times article and referring to it as neutral
    Good point about the Times. In this article, as in most others, it sides with the President but concedes that battle is not going well right now.

    FWIW, I agree 100% that too much time is being spent on nonsense like "Obama wants to kill Granny." But, hey, that's how laws play. In the mid 1990s, Congress passed a law regarding Medicaid fraud (a law that criminalized making certain transfers that circumvented Medicaid eligibility rules). In a breathtaking display of PR brilliance by the elder law attorneys groups, the law became known as the "Granny goes to jail" rule.
  5. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    12 Aug '09 00:15
    Insurers will be forced to cover people with pre-existing conditions, something like insuring your car after it has crashed.

    What happens when insurance becomes more expensive due to regulation is we will get a bunch of regulators and their flunkies saying "Look the insurance companies charge too much, we need to regulate them."
  6. 12 Aug '09 01:02
    Originally posted by sh76
    Good point about the Times. In this article, as in most others, it sides with the President but concedes that battle is not going well right now.

    FWIW, I agree 100% that too much time is being spent on nonsense like "Obama wants to kill Granny." But, hey, that's how laws play. In the mid 1990s, Congress passed a law regarding Medicaid fraud (a law that crimi ...[text shortened]... by the elder law attorneys groups, the law became known as the "Granny goes to jail" rule.
    this is what Obama said in Portsmouth today,Obama wants to kill Granny."
    Where is the original quote and who said this? This is more spin to discredit people opposed to having Obamacare. To portray them as nuts.I dont think anybody actually said this verbatim.But ,it will get repeated so often by Obama and his minions that it will become urban lore.
    If i am wrong that this "quote" is made up someone show me a link with whoever originally said this.
  7. 12 Aug '09 01:56
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    this is what Obama said in Portsmouth today,[b]Obama wants to kill Granny."
    Where is the original quote and who said this? This is more spin to discredit people opposed to having Obamacare. To portray them as nuts.I dont think anybody actually said this verbatim.But ,it will get repeated so often by Obama and his minions that it will become urban ...[text shortened]... wrong that this "quote" is made up someone show me a link with whoever originally said this.[/b]
    There have been lies floating around that Obama's plan either forces or encourages euthanasia for a while now.

    Look at Palin's message/lie about "death panels" too... of course I'm sure the "left" made that up and she just picked up on it.
  8. 12 Aug '09 02:10
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    There have been lies floating around that Obama's plan either forces or encourages euthanasia for a while now.

    Look at Palin's message/lie about "death panels" too... of course I'm sure the "left" made that up and she just picked up on it.
    I am aware of what Palin wrote on facebook. I am talking about this "kill granny" quote from Obama. Does anyone have a link to who originally said this? I cant find one.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Aug '09 02:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    I am aware of what Palin wrote on facebook. I am talking about this "kill granny" quote from Obama. Does anyone have a link to who originally said this? I cant find one.
    it was a figure of speech by sh76 (and rather apt and wry, too), as you well know. and now you're trying to run with the ball. makes you look silly.
  10. 12 Aug '09 02:59
    Originally posted by sh76
    Four articles today, 3 from the top 3 American newspapers (well, 3 of the top 4 with the Washington post) and one by the Democratic ex mayor of New York.

    All either critical of the bill or observing that the administration is on the defensive on the issue.

    And, no, I didn't cherry pick these. These are the first 4 opinion articles I found from neutral, cr ...[text shortened]... et he wishes this were like France where (or so they tell me) everything shuts down in August.
    I don't think Obama cares what the American people think about the issue so long as he gets it passed in the Senate.
  11. 12 Aug '09 03:14
    Originally posted by FMF
    it was a figure of speech by sh76 (and rather apt and wry, too), as you well know. and now you're trying to run with the ball. makes you look silly.
    No I am not FMF. Obama said this quote today in Portsmouth, NH. And, I have heard it elsewhere,I am just trying to find out if anyone originally (and actually) said this. Or is it a fabrication?
  12. 12 Aug '09 03:16
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    No I am not FMF. Obama said this quote today in Portsmouth, NH. And, I have heard it elsewhere,I am just trying to find out if anyone originally (and actually) said this. Or is it a fabrication?
    Google is your friend.

    It is a reference to the euthanasia lie - it's not Obama's invention.
  13. 12 Aug '09 03:24
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Google is your friend.

    It is a reference to the euthanasia lie - it's not Obama's invention.
    I guess I am beating a dead horse here. It was fabricated by someone obviously, and now taken as truth, where even the President is saying it. Ive googled the heck out of it and cant find an original quote of this. Its just more misinfo to demonize concerned citizens and make them look childish.
  14. 12 Aug '09 03:28
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    I guess I am beating a dead horse here. It was fabricated by someone obviously, and now taken as truth, where even the President is saying it. Ive googled the heck out of it and cant find an original quote of this. Its just more misinfo to demonize concerned citizens and make them look childish.
    How is it invented to demonize concerned citizens? You just made that assumption and there you go.

    I looked and couldn't find the original quote either (although I didn't look for very long), but the president is saying it because the euthanasia lie is out there and there are those that believe it.
  15. 12 Aug '09 03:33 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    How is it invented to demonize concerned citizens? You just made that assumption and there you go.

    I looked and couldn't find the original quote either (although I didn't look for very long), but the president is saying it because the euthanasia lie is out there and there are those that believe it.
    Well when you have a party that is pro abortion and you have Obama say something to the effect that perhaps some patients should be given a pain pill rather then have a surgery, which I heard him say, that is pretty much how people come to these conclusions. In fact, a great majority of left wingers I have met favor euthenasia. So is this mrerely a coincidence or a production from their dogma?