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Debates Forum

  1. 24 Sep '13 18:24
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2013/09/23/Craig-Jones-Fox-Sports-gay-marriage

    Is it right or wrong to fire James for his stance against homosexual marriage? Thumbs up for good job, he should be fired. Thumbs down for Fox was wrong.

    I see this as just another example of the powers that be trying to kill traditional religious beliefs.
  2. 24 Sep '13 18:33
    For the record, I didn't have time to read the whole article but if he was fired simply for his beliefs then I would say he shouldn't have been fired.

    That said, isn't it your position that a company shouldn't have to employ anyone they don't want to? I think in another thread you suggested that an employer should be able to refuse to hire someone because they are gay. Shouldn't this company be free to fire this guy because he opposes gay marriage according to your standard?
  3. 24 Sep '13 18:40
    I read stories quoting Fox Sports representatives essentially saying that people of faith are banned from working at Fox Sports [...]

    -Craig James

    Lol! Maybe he was fired because he is clinically insane?
  4. 24 Sep '13 18:55
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    For the record, I didn't have time to read the whole article but if he was fired simply for his beliefs then I would say he shouldn't have been fired.

    That said, isn't it your position that a company shouldn't have to employ anyone they don't want to? I think in another thread you suggested that an employer should be able to refuse to hire someone bec ...[text shortened]... his company be free to fire this guy because he opposes gay marriage according to your standard?
    There is a big difference in "right vs wrong" and "legal vs illegal".

    For example, it is not right to curse out your child for spilling milk. But it is legal.

    I think the discussion is only about "right vs wrong" at this point.
  5. 24 Sep '13 19:06
    Originally posted by techsouth
    There is a big difference in "right vs wrong" and "legal vs illegal".

    For example, it is not right to curse out your child for spilling milk. But it is legal.

    I think the discussion is only about "right vs wrong" at this point.
    I know and I think I expressed my opinion in the start of my post.

    Eledar mentioned this:
    "I see this as just another example of the powers that be trying to kill traditional religious beliefs."

    And that's fine - but he seems from prior posts to have no problem with employers firing or not hiring people because they are gay or for whatever reason they want. I would think by the same principle he should be ok with this employer exercising their desire not to hire this man.

    After all, it's the "free market" right? If this employer decides to fire/not hire people with supposed traditional beliefs and they are too big of the labor market then they'll just go out of business.
  6. 24 Sep '13 19:11
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I know and I think I expressed my opinion in the start of my post.

    Eledar mentioned this:
    "I see this as just another example of the powers that be trying to kill traditional religious beliefs."

    And that's fine - but he seems from prior posts to have no problem with employers firing or not hiring people because they are gay or for whatever ...[text shortened]... aditional beliefs and they are too big of the labor market then they'll just go out of business.
    I have no problem with the company doing what it wants. I just want people to call a spade a spade. If the discrimination is taking place, at least be willing to admit it.
  7. 24 Sep '13 19:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I have no problem with the company doing what it wants. I just want people to call a spade a spade. If the discrimination is taking place, at least be willing to admit it.
    Well, I'm figuring this will come out in his lawsuit.

    I think the main question will be whether they can convince the courts that firing because of a position on one issue constitutes discrimination based on religion. That may not be as easy as you might think to prove.

    Not all Christians are against gay marriage so firing someone for not being in favor of that could be seen as not discriminating against him because of his religion, but simply firing him because they're afraid he might express an opinion on air that they don't want to invite.
  8. 24 Sep '13 19:28
    sorry folks I had to let robbie go
  9. Subscriber invigorate
    Only 1 F in Uckfield
    24 Sep '13 19:34
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2013/09/23/Craig-Jones-Fox-Sports-gay-marriage

    Is it right or wrong to fire James for his stance against homosexual marriage? Thumbs up for good job, he should be fired. Thumbs down for Fox was wrong.

    I see this as just another example of the powers that be trying to kill traditional religious beliefs.
    His views are morally wrong.
    His desire to work for Murdoch is ethically wrong.

    I think an employer needs to be confident that its employees view all people equally. Whilst in my opinion Fox doesn't really have a brand worth protecting, Fox may feel that a public face of its organisation should not represented by someone who defers to "The Lord" to judge on human rights.

    We are talking about two people in love wanting to marry - where is harm in that?
  10. 24 Sep '13 19:35
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2013/09/23/Craig-Jones-Fox-Sports-gay-marriage

    Is it right or wrong to fire James for his stance against homosexual marriage? Thumbs up for good job, he should be fired. Thumbs down for Fox was wrong.

    I see this as just another example of the powers that be trying to kill traditional religious beliefs.
    Just because a fired employee articulates a reason for his firing does not mean it is true. Based on his involvement in Mike Leach's firing and his pushing to one sided coverage of his son's treatment at Texas Tech it certainly seems plausible that Craig James was a difficult employee with his own agenda and the employer exercised their rights to fire him.
  11. 24 Sep '13 19:40
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I know and I think I expressed my opinion in the start of my post.

    Eledar mentioned this:
    "I see this as just another example of the powers that be trying to kill traditional religious beliefs."

    And that's fine - but he seems from prior posts to have no problem with employers firing or not hiring people because they are gay or for whatever ...[text shortened]... aditional beliefs and they are too big of the labor market then they'll just go out of business.
    Still this is very different.

    One could easily hold the opinion that employers should be free to not hire a person for being gay, but not hold the opinion that employers should not hire someone for being gay.

    "I should be free to not hire someone because they're gay" is not the same as "I won't hire someone because they're gay". And both are different from "no one should hire a gay person".

    Personally, I believe we should be free to drink Tequila. But I don't drink Tequila.

    And one could believe that we should be free to not hire someone because they're a Mormon, and still criticize the actual decision to exercise that freedom.

    If someone drinks 8 Tequila shots in one evening, I think that's a bad choice. But I'm not saying we should not be free to drink 8 Tequila shots in one evening.

    There are many people who believe we should be free to hire/fire whoever we want for whatever reason. But I can't imagine anyone who would not find fault with a subset of the reason that may be used to hire/fire someone regardless of their stance on the freedom to make those choices.
  12. 24 Sep '13 20:20
    Originally posted by techsouth
    There is a big difference in "right vs wrong" and "legal vs illegal".

    For example, it is not right to curse out your child for spilling milk. But it is legal.

    I think the discussion is only about "right vs wrong" at this point.
    I don't have a moral objection to a sports news agency firing a bigot for publicly expressing his bigotry.
  13. 24 Sep '13 20:37
    Originally posted by techsouth
    Still this is very different.

    One could easily hold the opinion that employers should be free to not hire a person for being gay, but not hold the opinion that employers should not hire someone for being gay.

    "I should be free to not hire someone because they're gay" is not the same as "I won't hire someone because they're gay". And both are differe ...[text shortened]... ay be used to hire/fire someone regardless of their stance on the freedom to make those choices.
    I think we're agreeing more than you think we are.

    From Eledar's posting history I got the impression that he saw it as a moral action to fire someone or not hire someone for being gay or whatever reason they wanted to.

    Then he posts this claiming discrimination and if he thought this was an immoral action then I don't think I would have been too off base to consider that a bit of a double standard.
  14. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    24 Sep '13 21:04
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2013/09/23/Craig-Jones-Fox-Sports-gay-marriage

    Is it right or wrong to fire James for his stance against homosexual marriage? Thumbs up for good job, he should be fired. Thumbs down for Fox was wrong.

    I see this as just another example of the powers that be trying to kill traditional religious beliefs.
    He is entitled to his beliefs but being a commentator surely means he must be careful of his comments? I would assume that he has transgressed some
    condition of his contract.

    If that is not the case then it is morally wrong to fire him.
  15. 24 Sep '13 21:39
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    He is entitled to his beliefs but being a commentator surely means he must be careful of his comments? I would assume that he has transgressed some
    condition of his contract.

    If that is not the case then it is morally wrong to fire him.
    My interest concerns consistency. If you are fired for taking one side of a political issue, then it seems to me that people taking the opposite side should also be fired.

    If a company has the freedom to fire for this reason, then any company should be allowed to fire for any reason.