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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    06 Aug '18 19:41
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/aug/06/socialist-bookshop-support-after-rightwingers-attack-bookmarks

    "Socialist bookshop inundated with support after rightwingers' attack
    Donations and messages of support have flooded in after far-right
    protesters targeted Bookmarks in central London"

    "Twelve men, one of whom was wearing a Donald Trump mask, entered
    the central London shop as staff were closing for the day, knocking over
    displays and ripping up magazines while chanting far-right slogans."

    "Dave Gilchrist, manager of Bookmarks, said: “This horrific attack on a
    radical bookshop should send shivers down the spine of anyone who knows
    their history. The Nazis targeted books because they knew how important
    radical ideas are for challenging racism and fascism. The same is true
    today, and that is why we have to show that we won’t be intimidated.”
    Bookmarks is the official bookseller for the Trades Union Congress."
  2. Zugzwang
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    06 Aug '18 19:45
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/06/far-right-target-books-alarm-bells-bookmarks-donald-trump

    "When the far right targets books, it should ring alarm bells for us all"
    --David Gilchrist

    "Donald Trump’s election as United States president has released a feeling among
    some on the hard right that it’s now OK to say out loud things that had been made
    unacceptable – and that feeling can easily turn into violence, as we found on Saturday.

    But it’s not just Trump. Here in Britain, we’ve seen the emergence of organisations such
    as the “anti-extremist” Football Lads Alliance, which has targeted Muslims and prominent
    black figures such as MP Diane Abbott. The movement that has gathered around Tommy
    Robinson, the founder of the far-right English Defence League, is another recent example."

    "When the far right starts attacking books, alarm bells ring for anyone who wants to live in a
    democratic society. In May 1933 the German student union, a Nazi organisation, initiated the
    mass public burning of books in an attempt to “purify” society and rid it of “un-German” influences.
    Tens of thousands of volumes were hauled from libraries and archives and burned in public squares."

    "The fantastic response Bookmarks has received since Saturday lets us know that we’re
    not alone – and that people understand the value of independent bookshops in a world
    dominated by big business."
  3. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
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    07 Aug '18 07:00
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/06/far-right-target-books-alarm-bells-bookmarks-donald-trump

    "When the far right targets books, it should ring alarm bells for us all"
    --David Gilchrist

    "Donald Trump’s election as United States president has released a feeling among
    some on the hard right that it’s now OK to say out loud things ...[text shortened]... at people understand the value of independent bookshops in a world
    dominated by big business."
    We all know this is going to end in bloodshed.

    Everytime the extreme right gets emboldened, they get very nasty, very fast.

    Now with the likes of trump supporting them, they will become ever more prominent.
    And we’ll be forced to put them down like dogs again.

    Why the EU? Why the UN? Why all those human-rights treaties?
    To help this sort of situation from occurring again. It only works when the political will supports these institutions.

    The tories and trump, wrapped up in their greedy little agendas, do not care about society or what the consequences are of their behaviour; so long as their rich supporters get richer, they’re willing to do and say anything.

    And in the end, it will be commies, the trade-unionists and the normal decent folk who will bleed stopping the madness.
  4. Garner, NC
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    07 Aug '18 15:18
    There have been scores of "false flag" attacks. Somehow leftists only hear the initial news reports and never hear the rest of the story that comes out later. I'm not saying this is necessarily a false flag, but from where I'm sitting that sounds more likely. This can be a very effective form of propaganda for the left.

    Here is one example. There are many others...

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/us/air-force-academy-racist-message-trnd/index.html
  5. Garner, NC
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    07 Aug '18 15:40
    Another false flag:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/05/16/heil-trump-church-graffiti-false-flag/324677001/

    And another...

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/03/college-diversity-council-admits-posting-fake-racist-flyers-campus/

    And another...

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/21/jasskirat-saini-arrested-for-writing-kkk-on-college-campus/

    And another...

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/university-michigan-student-lied-hijab-threat-article-1.2919133

    But of course, we should not be the slightest bit skeptical of the newest claim, which brought a lot of favorable press to the bookstore.
  6. Garner, NC
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    07 Aug '18 15:48
    And another...

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/12/fake-hate-black-man-arrested-vandalizing-cars-pro-trump-anti-black-graffiti/

    And another...

    http://www.13abc.com/content/news/BG-police-say-student-lied-about-politically-driven-attack-401814426.html

    And another...

    http://www.beloitdailynews.com/article/20170202/ARTICLE/170209956
  7. Germany
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    07 Aug '18 16:01
    Don't forget 9/11 and Sandy Hook. 🙄
  8. Garner, NC
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    07 Aug '18 16:091 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Don't forget 9/11 and Sandy Hook. 🙄
    What's your point? Are you suggesting that any of the stories I've cited are wrong? If so, which one(s)? I have never suggested 9/11 nor Sandy Hook are conspiracies. HOW ARE YOU PINNING THAT ON ME? Do you consider your post to have made a salient point? If so, please elaborate.

    Are you even slightly interested in the truth, or only supporting your preferred narrative?

    Edit: perhaps I haven't read them all carefully, but I believe 100% of the false flag stories I listed, the perpetrator has admitted to the hoax. I deliberately left out any link that had any doubt as to whether it was a hoax.
  9. Garner, NC
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    07 Aug '18 16:151 edit
    So let me get this straight. You're equivocating a claim that 9/11 was a false flag hoax with a scenario where an individual admitted to the hoax of faking a racist attack.

    Just curious, do you consider yourself a good analytical thinker?
  10. Joined
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    07 Aug '18 16:27
    Originally posted by @techsouth
    So let me get this straight. You're equivocating a claim that 9/11 was a false flag hoax with a scenario where an individual admitted to the hoax of faking a racist attack.

    Just curious, do you consider yourself a good analytical thinker?
    I would concern myself too much with kazetmazoro...liberals here have a habit of going completey ignorant when they don't have a valid argument.
  11. Germany
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    07 Aug '18 16:29
    Originally posted by @techsouth
    What's your point? Are you suggesting that any of the stories I've cited are wrong? If so, which one(s)? I have never suggested 9/11 nor Sandy Hook are conspiracies. HOW ARE YOU PINNING THAT ON ME? Do you consider your post to have made a salient point? If so, please elaborate.

    Are you even slightly interested in the truth, or only supporting you ...[text shortened]... d to the hoax. I deliberately left out any link that had any doubt as to whether it was a hoax.
    I'm suggesting that you are suggesting that this bookshop attack was a hoax without providing any evidence other than people lying about completely unrelated events.
  12. Garner, NC
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    07 Aug '18 16:40
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    I'm suggesting that you are suggesting that this bookshop attack was a hoax without providing any evidence other than people lying about completely unrelated events.
    I'm suggesting that

    1. we should have some skepticism.
    2. we should note that the bookstore gained valuable publicity and donations, thus having plenty of motivation for deceit.
    3. the majority of similar claims that have reached national news in the US have turned out to be hoaxes.
    4. this would have been very easy to fake.

    I'll make a deal, I won't conclude that this is a hoax if you won't conclude this is an example of right-wing hate.
  13. Garner, NC
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    07 Aug '18 16:49
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    I'm suggesting that you are suggesting that this bookshop attack was a hoax without providing any evidence other than people lying about completely unrelated events.
    Also, for you to make your point, it would have been more appropriate to list some other "hoax" that you believed actually was a hoax. Equivalating non-hoaxes against my long list of actual hoaxes just sounds like snark, and fails to make the point you were trying to make.
  14. Germany
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    07 Aug '18 17:10
    Originally posted by @techsouth
    I'm suggesting that

    1. we should have some skepticism.
    2. we should note that the bookstore gained valuable publicity and donations, thus having plenty of motivation for deceit.
    3. the majority of similar claims that have reached national news in the US have turned out to be hoaxes.
    4. this would have been [b]very
    easy to fake.

    I'll make a d ...[text shortened]... won't conclude that this is a hoax if you won't conclude this is an example of right-wing hate.[/b]
    5. The owners of the bookstore called the police. Calling the police for no reason can get you in a lot of trouble.
    6. UKIP suspended three of its members after the incident - why would they do so without credible evidence that said three members were involved in this incident?
    7. The story was reported by the most respected private media organization in the U.K., which has a reputation to uphold and should be expected to at least go to some length to verify the veracity of this story.

    All in all, it does not appear plausible that this story in particular is a hoax.
  15. Zugzwang
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    07 Aug '18 19:07
    Originally posted by @techsouth
    There have been scores of "false flag" attacks. Somehow leftists only hear the initial news reports and never hear the rest of the story that comes out later. I'm not saying this is necessarily a false flag, but from where I'm sitting that sounds more likely. This can be a very effective form of propaganda for the left.

    Here is one example. There a ...[text shortened]... others...

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/us/air-force-academy-racist-message-trnd/index.html
    Without citing any relevant evidence,TechSouth has implicitly accused the attack on the
    bookshop of being a 'false flag' incident staged by leftists in order to frame the right-wing.
    The London police have not jumped to conclusions like TechSouth's.

    In fact, there's video evidence of the attack.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bookmarks-bookshop-attack-socialist-london-muslims-paedophilia-trump-a8478306.html

    "Far-right protesters including man in Trump mask attack socialist bookshop while chanting about Muslims"

    "It [the attack on the bookshop] followed the conclusion of a "Make Britain Great Again"
    protest against the censoring of a conspiracy theory website nearby.

    The far-right group filmed their actions before swiftly deleting the video from their YouTube
    channel, however a copy was saved and uploaded again on the channel Far-Right Watch.
    It shows protestors screaming abuse, tearing up signs on display in the shop, and
    brandishing books with titles they disapprove of."

    ""Luckily no one was hurt this time, but this is a sinister development that indicates the growing
    confidence of the far right who feel they can attack a bookshop in central London in broad daylight."
    --Michael Bradley
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