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  1. Joined
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    18 Dec '18 15:322 edits
    From SF Chronicle Services
    “Student discipline: The Trump administration is planning to roll back Obama-era policies aimed at ensuring that minority children are not unfairly disciplined, arguing that the efforts have eased up on punishment and contributed to rising violence in the nation’s schools. The decision culminates a nearly yearlong effort begun by the Trump administration after the massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla. The deaths of 17 students and staff members on Feb. 14 prompted lawmakers in both parties to demand tougher gun laws, but President Trump abandoned that focus and instead empowered a school safety commission, led by Education Secretary Betsy DeVos. Almost immediately, the commission turned away from guns, and instead scrutinized the Obama administration’s school discipline policies, though none of the most high-profile school shootings were perpetrated by black students.”
  2. Joined
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    18 Dec '18 17:091 edit
    Obama introduced discipline rules to discourage school from suspending or expelling students or reporting the police. The guidance was created because it was felt that black students received more severe discipline than whites.
    Not punishing students simply because you are afraid that minorities might be punished more often avoids the issue. Anyone who needs to be punished should be punished and punishment for crime should not be based on race. Furthermore, if a crime is committed schools should be mandated, not discouraged, from calling the police. School should aim to be crime free zones and all crimes should be reported as crimes, and not treated as rules violations.
    None of this relates directly to mass shootings though I do agree that we obviously should try to prevent them and gun control certain wouldn't hurt.
  3. Joined
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    18 Dec '18 19:171 edit
    @quackquack said
    Obama introduced discipline rules to discourage school from suspending or expelling students or reporting the police. The guidance was created because it was felt that black students received more severe discipline than whites.
    Not punishing students simply because you are afraid that minorities might be punished more often avoids the issue. Anyone who needs to be p ...[text shortened]... hough I do agree that we obviously should try to prevent them and gun control certain wouldn't hurt.
    Yes, but nowhere did it say that not punishing students was an outcome of the Obama era policy review. Using the reaction to the massacre as a way to “roll back Obama-era policies aimed at ensuring that minority children are not unfairly disciplined” is beneath contempt. These massacres have nothing to do with the treatment of minority children.
  4. Joined
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    18 Dec '18 20:43
    @js357 said
    Yes, but nowhere did it say that not punishing students was an outcome of the Obama era policy review. Using the reaction to the massacre as a way to “roll back Obama-era policies aimed at ensuring that minority children are not unfairly disciplined” is beneath contempt. These massacres have nothing to do with the treatment of minority children.
    The policy and the change in policy has to do with in school discipline not school shootings. Obama was concerned that a disproportionate number of minorities were being punished for misbehaving and decided that schools should punish less. Trump feels that without the ability to punish school are losing an important discipline tool.
    We have people in the US who think that if guns were illegal no one would break the law and shoot kids at school. We also have people who think if we armed everyone no one would shoot anyone because they would be shot immediately. Both extremes are clearly wrong but once again I don't believe this is a gun control issue.
  5. Joined
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    19 Dec '18 06:065 edits
    @quackquack said
    The policy and the change in policy has to do with in school discipline not school shootings. Obama was concerned that a disproportionate number of minorities were being punished for misbehaving and decided that schools should punish less. Trump feels that without the ability to punish school are losing an important discipline tool.
    We have people in the US who th ...[text shortened]... ately. Both extremes are clearly wrong but once again I don't believe this is a gun control issue.
    Nobody is trying to make this thread be about gun control except that you want to make sure it isn’t. Fine, because it isn’t about gun control.

    The administration chose to roll back an Obama-era effort to address an alleged inequity, which is heightened discipline of minority students for disorderly behavior. That is, throwing a spit wad is punished more severely if you are a minority. That is arguable, but the administration didn’t argue that, either way. The massacre that the administration used as a reason to roll back the Obama-era effort was not perpetrated by a minority student and such massacres are not typically perpetrated by minority students. So eliminating the inequitable punishment of minority students for classroom disruptions will not encourage the typical perpetrators of gun massacres in our schools. Their encouragement comes from other places than that.

    This is not a dog whistle issue of gun control, even though it has been the administration’s objective to make it into that. It’s a pity that we can be manipulated so easily.

    Edit: I don’t know of your source for “Obama...decided that schools should punish less.” Please cite it.
  6. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    19 Dec '18 06:53
    Right -- the policies from Pres. Obama actually undermined the ability of teachers to enforce classroom discipline. This, ultimately, was not helpful to the students who were there to learn and to advance themselves. They were punished by the impotence of the system to protect them from other students or to maintain classroom discipline.

    To really discuss this, we would need a lot of information about whether or not school discipline has been worsening over the last several years or if these policies have had a positive impact. Sadly, that kind of information can be hard to find.
  7. Standard membershavixmironline
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    19 Dec '18 10:43
    @philokalia said
    Right -- the policies from Pres. Obama actually undermined the ability of teachers to enforce classroom discipline. This, ultimately, was not helpful to the students who were there to learn and to advance themselves. They were punished by the impotence of the system to protect them from other students or to maintain classroom discipline.

    To really discuss this, we woul ...[text shortened]... r if these policies have had a positive impact. Sadly, that kind of information can be hard to find.
    There are no records on school disciplinairy actions?
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    19 Dec '18 12:011 edit
    @philokalia said
    Right -- the policies from Pres. Obama actually undermined the ability of teachers to enforce classroom discipline. This, ultimately, was not helpful to the students who were there to learn and to advance themselves. They were punished by the impotence of the system to protect them from other students or to maintain classroom discipline.

    To really discuss this, we woul ...[text shortened]... r if these policies have had a positive impact. Sadly, that kind of information can be hard to find.
    Would you guys actually have ANY talking points if it weren't for Fox News "talking points"?

    I stopped hearing anything you guys had to say after you started blaming the poor for being poor.
  9. Joined
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    19 Dec '18 16:151 edit
    @shavixmir said
    There are no records on school disciplinairy actions?
    Here is some information on the federal guidance for discipline:

    https://safesupportivelearning.ed.gov/events/webinar/overview-school-discipline-guidance-package

    While I haven’t found data on the results of implementation, this material should provide for us to assess the reasonableness of the guidance.

    Also I suspect that individual schools and teachers will stick with the guidance to the degree it is working for them, while the blatherers blather away.
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