Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    19 Jan '19 23:45
    In his speech today, the Donald offered the following:

    The president backed legislation to give more than 700,000 immigrants, known as "Dreamers," temporary legal status and work authorization for three years if their protection gets revoked. He also supported a three-year extension of the legal status of immigrants temporarily protected from deportation.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    $800 million in "urgent humanitarian assistance"
    $805 million for "drug detection technology to help secure our ports of entry"
    2,750 more border patrol agents and law enforcement officials
    75 new immigration judge teams
    A mechanism to allow Central American minors to apply for asylum in their home countries

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Trump again pushed for $5.7 billion in U.S. funding to build "steel barriers in high-priority locations" — different from the Mexican government-funded concrete wall across the entire southern border that he proposed as a candidate.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/19/trump-declares-national-emergency-over-immigration-amid-border-wall-push.html

    IMO, the Dems shouldn't reject this out of hand (as they are doing so far) but use it as a starting point for further negotiations. A three year extension for legal protections for Dreamers and protection of certain classes from deportation keeps them in the country until after the 2020 election when there are excellent chances for a Democratic President and Senate being put in place. It ends the shutdown getting paychecks to 800,000 Federal workers. And it's only a fraction of the money that Trump needs for his foolish wall.

    Squeeze him a little more and he'll probably cave further but I'd say the Dems have an excellent opportunity. The Coulters and right wing media pundits are already screaming; good.
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    20 Jan '19 17:57
    The Washington Post editorial board agrees with me anyway:

    The editorial board suggested that Trump's suggestion "be welcomed but not accepted as the final word."

    "There should be room to talk about the amount of money; how border security will be defined and enhanced; which categories of dreamers and TPS beneficiaries are covered; what their legal status will be, and for how long," it said. "But to refuse even to talk until the government reopens does no favors to sidelined federal workers and contractors."

    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/426221-washington-post-calls-on-trump-dems-to-make-a-deal
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    20 Jan '19 22:26
    @no1marauder said
    In his speech today, the Donald offered the following:

    The president backed legislation to give more than 700,000 immigrants, known as "Dreamers," temporary legal status and work authorization for three years if their protection gets revoked. He also supported a three-year extension of the legal status of immigrants temporarily protected from deportation.

    ---------- ...[text shortened]... ave an excellent opportunity. The Coulters and right wing media pundits are already screaming; good.
    I thought what he said upset both sides which I thought was an honest attempt at finding a solution. Saying no before he was done with his proposal was even completed makes me think Dems don't care about the shut down as much as denying Trump anything. I'm also of the opinion Trump can and will do a few things on his own if he feels forced to. Good or not, will remain to be seen.
  4. Subscribermoonbus
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    20 Jan '19 22:37
    @kellyjay said
    I thought what he said upset both sides which I thought was an honest attempt at finding a solution. Saying no before he was done with his proposal was even completed makes me think Dems don't care about the shut down as much as denying Trump anything. I'm also of the opinion Trump can and will do a few things on his own if he feels forced to. Good or not, will remain to be seen.
    Trump is getting a taste of his own medicine, and he doesn't like it. Trying to govern by bullying Congress will only generate resistance, not compliance.
  5. Behind the scenes
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    21 Jan '19 14:27
    @no1marauder

    IMO, the Dems shouldn't reject this out of hand (as they are doing so far) but use it as a starting point for further negotiations. A three year extension for legal protections for Dreamers and protection of certain classes from deportation keeps them in the country until after the 2020 election when there are excellent chances for a Democratic President and Senate being put in place. It ends the shutdown getting paychecks to 800,000 Federal workers. And it's only a fraction of the money that Trump needs for his foolish wall.



    Normally I would agree, but Trump's decision to shut down part of our government and place 800,000 Federal workers in financial hardship unless he gets his stupid wall is not exactly the way the framers of our constitution designed things to work. I say Nancy Pelosi is right - reopen the government, THEN negotiate.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    21 Jan '19 19:26
    @mchill said
    @no1marauder

    IMO, the Dems shouldn't reject this out of hand (as they are doing so far) but use it as a starting point for further negotiations. A three year extension for legal protections for Dreamers and protection of certain classes from deportation keeps them in the country until after the 2020 election when there are excellent chances for a Democratic President and Se ...[text shortened]... tution designed things to work. I say Nancy Pelosi is right - reopen the government, THEN negotiate.
    A refusal to negotiate at all is morally suspect and politically unsustainable. I wouldn't be surprised if the polls started moving in a less anti-Trump way if the Democrats maintain their "hold yer breath until you turn blue" position.
  7. Behind the scenes
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    21 Jan '19 21:52
    @no1marauder

    A refusal to negotiate at all is morally suspect and politically unsustainable.



    That may be true, but I think you realize if this is the new normal, then Presidents will simply pull this shutdown maneuver whenever they don't get their way. Is that really what you want??
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Jan '19 00:22
    @mchill said
    @no1marauder

    A refusal to negotiate at all is morally suspect and politically unsustainable.



    That may be true, but I think you realize if this is the new normal, then Presidents will simply pull this shutdown maneuver whenever they don't get their way. Is that really what you want??
    So your solution to the shutdown is to just insist that Trump agree to reopen the government with no negotiations? Give me your assessment of the percentage chance of that succeeding.

    Trump's already backing down from his promise of a wall and is pissing off right wingers by offering some protections for DACA eligibles and others. McConnell is throwing in increased disaster aid and other goodies. What is lost by negotiating for more?
  9. Behind the scenes
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    22 Jan '19 01:161 edit
    @no1marauder

    So your solution to the shutdown is to just insist that Trump agree to reopen the government with no negotiations?

    No, my solution is negotiations are OK to start now, but before anything is agreed to, the government reopens, otherwise we'll be in this same situation the next time Trump doesn't get his way.
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Jan '19 01:361 edit
    @mchill said
    @no1marauder

    So your solution to the shutdown is to just insist that Trump agree to reopen the government with no negotiations?

    No, my solution is negotiations are OK to start now, but before anything is agreed to, the government reopens, otherwise we'll be in this same situation the next time Trump doesn't get his way.
    Personally, I think Congress shouldn't be getting paid while the shutdown is going on, the President as well. Except from what I understand he isn't collecting a salary now regardless, it would have no effect on him.
  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    22 Jan '19 01:57
    Pelosi could offer an outrageous negotiating position
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Jan '19 02:02
    @kellyjay said
    Personally, I think Congress should be shouldn't getting paid while the shutdown is going on, the President as well. Except from what I understand he isn't collecting a salary now regardless, it would have no effect on him.
    Trump donates his salary and presumably takes the deduction for his charitable donations thus he still receives a financial benefit (we'd of course know for sure if he made his tax returns public).
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Jan '19 02:06
    @mchill said
    @no1marauder

    So your solution to the shutdown is to just insist that Trump agree to reopen the government with no negotiations?

    No, my solution is negotiations are OK to start now, but before anything is agreed to, the government reopens, otherwise we'll be in this same situation the next time Trump doesn't get his way.
    The Pelosi-Schumer position is no negotiations until the shutdown is ended:

    "If [Trump] opens the government, we'll discuss whatever he offers, but hostage taking should not work," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Sunday, stating the unified Democratic position.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is true even though:

    Most Senate Republicans are publicly united in opposing any bill Trump won't say he'll sign, but privately, "White House officials and GOP leaders would accept virtually any offer from Democrats to end the impasse, hoping they sell it to Trump as a 'victory' and move forward," The Washington Post reports, citing one Republican with close ties to both the administration and congressional leaders. "There is extreme consternation about how poorly the shutdown was playing out and how polling shows many Americans heaping blame on Trump."

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/818941/mitch-mcconnell-says-bring-trumps-dreamersforwall-shutdown-proposal-vote-week
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Jan '19 03:13
    @no1marauder said
    Trump donates his salary and presumably takes the deduction for his charitable donations thus he still receives a financial benefit (we'd of course know for sure if he made his tax returns public).
    Wouldn't you if you were donating your salary?
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Jan '19 03:191 edit
    @kellyjay said
    Wouldn't you if you were donating your salary?
    Sure. But the point is he still receives a financial benefit which would be only a little lower than a House member's salary (they make $174,000 while a $400,000 deduction at the highest tax bracket would be worth $148,000).
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