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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    01 Aug '10 14:35
    My son got stopped at a sobriety check point the other night and he hadn't been drinking but he is only 21 and has a gf with who had a baby by another man. So the cops found out his drivers license was out of date by a few days. They searched the car for drugs, took off the babies diaper to see if there was a stash there, claimed there was marijuana on the floor, would not let him drive home ( one mile away) and I had to come with his brother so we could drive both cars home. No drugs were found.

    My sons are adapted, Puerto Rican identical twins. I am a good old boy, Irish.
    Thing is, I went through the same check point to get to my other car, they didn't ask me anything, did not even ask for a drivers license and we drove both cars home.

    The question here is, on his birthday, he is a great driver, but the day after, when his drivers license has 'expired', now he is a totally unsafe driver?

    I know for a fact, I got caught the same way, drivers license expired, the cop wrote me up a ticket, says be sure to get it renewed, let me on my way. In the same town.

    So it seems to me the only reason for the idea of drivers license and such is to prove the power of authorities over the individual. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with driving ability.

    What do you think?
  2. 01 Aug '10 14:38
    It's called being a legal driver. What's the big deal if I don't carry my driver's license with me? Does it make me any less or more safe a driver?

    Of course not. It is the law. If you don't follow the law, then you can get in trouble. If you don't like the law, try to get it changed.
  3. 01 Aug '10 14:39
    How hard is it to get a driver's license in the States? Over here you have to take a theoretical and practise exam where more than half of entrants fail. But no doubt most police officers act more or less according to prejudice.
  4. 01 Aug '10 14:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse

    So it seems to me the only reason for the idea of drivers license and such is to prove the power of authorities over the individual. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with driving ability.

    What do you think?
    I think you and your sons need to keep your drivers license current and not drive on expired licenses.

    You are operating a piece of machinery that can weigh several tons at high speeds and go through residential areas. It's not about "proving power of the authoriies over you", it's about public safety.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Aug '10 14:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    How hard is it to get a driver's license in the States? Over here you have to take a theoretical and practise exam where more than half of entrants fail. But no doubt most police officers act more or less according to prejudice.
    No big deal. A written test to get a learner's permit (to drive with a parent or instructor), which any idiot can pass by reading through a short book that contains all the info you need. To get the license, you need to pass a driving test which lasts maybe 10 minutes. If you flunk it, you just schedule another one etc. until you pass. From then on, you never have to take another test. Renewal every 8 years (in NY at least is automatic (with a fee).

    A driver's licensing system is necessary and smart; not just to demonstrate that the person can drive; that's just initially. But to enforce traffic laws. If you violate too many of them your license can be suspended pending a waiting period or completion of driver safety courses; also to keep track of a person's driving record, for insurance purposes, etc. Without the licensing systems, traffic enforcement would be as big a joke as pedestrian walking rules enforcement (as demonstrated by that Seattle video).

    Someone wants to complain about a particular cop's behavior vis a vis a driver? Fine. But to complain about the concept of driver's licenses is ridiculous.
  6. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    01 Aug '10 14:50
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    I think you and your sons need to keep your drivers license current and not drive on expired licenses.

    You are operating a piece of machinery that can weigh several tons at high speeds and go through residential areas. It's not about "proving power of the authoriies over you", it's about public safety.
    Exactly to what end? Of course we got them renewed first chance but exactly how does having a drivers license relate to being a safe driver? All it says is the state got their 30 bucks and you passed a minimal test and can more or less see and more or less not deaf. So what then? 3 years later, your license expires and all of a sudden you go blind, you can't hear, you start crashing into trees?
  7. 01 Aug '10 14:50
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    How hard is it to get a driver's license in the States? Over here you have to take a theoretical and practise exam where more than half of entrants fail. But no doubt most police officers act more or less according to prejudice.
    Get a license or update it? Once you have a license, all you have to do is go in, stand in line, show proof of insurance and cough up a few bucks.
  8. 01 Aug '10 14:57
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Exactly to what end? Of course we got them renewed first chance but exactly how does having a drivers license relate to being a safe driver? All it says is the state got their 30 bucks and you passed a minimal test and can more or less see and more or less not deaf. So what then? 3 years later, your license expires and all of a sudden you go blind, you can't hear, you start crashing into trees?
    Are you suggesting that people should be allowed to drive on expired licenses until they feel like renewing them?
  9. 01 Aug '10 15:00
    Originally posted by sh76
    No big deal. A written test to get a learner's permit (to drive with a parent or instructor), which any idiot can pass by reading through a short book that contains all the info you need. To get the license, you need to pass a driving test which lasts maybe 10 minutes. If you flunk it, you just schedule another one etc. until you pass. From then on, you never h ...[text shortened]... vis a driver? Fine. But to complain about the concept of driver's licenses is ridiculous.
    Ah yes, renewal is automatic here too, but passing the test is quite tricky. A minor mistake will see you fail the test. I know some people who tried over 7 times and then just gave up.

    But it's a good point, a license is also a way to punish people who don't follow the rules.
  10. 01 Aug '10 15:06
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra

    But it's a good point, a license is also a way to punish people who don't follow the rules.
    You say that like it's a bad thing.

    What's wrong with punishing people who don't follow the rules?
  11. 01 Aug '10 15:10
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    You say that like it's a bad thing.

    What's wrong with punishing people who don't follow the rules?
    Then you're reading an implied suggestion which is not intended.
  12. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    01 Aug '10 15:43
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    You say that like it's a bad thing.

    What's wrong with punishing people who don't follow the rules?
    It looks to me like rule makers (lawmakers, congress, senate, parliament, whatever) are out to make sure there is a criminal class. That keeps their organization alive, proving they are needed, creates underclasses by definition, just like religions.
  13. 01 Aug '10 15:50
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It looks to me like rule makers (lawmakers, congress, senate, parliament, whatever) are out to make sure there is a criminal class. That keeps their organization alive, proving they are needed, creates underclasses by definition, just like religions.
    What do you want?
    NO license requirements?

    What? What will make you happy?
  14. 01 Aug '10 15:53
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It looks to me like rule makers (lawmakers, congress, senate, parliament, whatever) are out to make sure there is a criminal class. That keeps their organization alive, proving they are needed, creates underclasses by definition, just like religions.
    Seriously?

    Your son had a whole month to demonstrate responsibility by renewing his license. If that responsibility is too much of a burden for him, then maybe the responsibility of driving safely is as well. If the DMV were only open the first Tuesday of the month between 4:00 PM and 4:30 PM then yeah, they're going out of their way to make it impossible so that there is a criminal class.
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Aug '10 15:53
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It looks to me like rule makers (lawmakers, congress, senate, parliament, whatever) are out to make sure there is a criminal class. That keeps their organization alive, proving they are needed, creates underclasses by definition, just like religions.
    You're paranoid.

    (Of course, that doesn't mean they're not all really out to get you.)