What Socialism is NOT

@sonhouse said
Tell that freedom tale to those innocent folks with ZERO arrest record attacked by ICE. THAT is perfectly alright with you. A few innocent folks condemned to a life sentence behind gulags where they get beaten on a daily basis is oh well, just the price of freedom.
That is unless YOU are one of those arrested by masked thugs refusing to ID themselves.
Tell me why ICE can c ...[text shortened]...
And an American citizen BABY with cancer arrested by ICE, OH SO BAD but it is the price of freedom.

.....' those innocent folks with ZERO arrest record..."
What folks? Do you know any of them? What church they go to, maybe. When they became citizens, what state of residence did they declare on IRS rolls?
I saw pictures of 10 of them, 5 male, 5 female, all headed for jail hopefully. Did you know any of them? Do you know anyone who might have known them? Has it been determined who they are? Are they all citizens of the same states? If they are not US citizens, can they be citizens of any state? And why are they here? Why are they not in their own countries?
If they are caught waving a flag of another country, I think that is a reason for deportation. You do not tell us if they were waving another flag. Do you think someone waving a Mex flag should be allowed to live here? So many questions. Do they live off our welfare...do they contribute to our charities....Do they 'give back' to their communities? Do they 'pay it forward''?

@sonhouse said
I lived in Thailand for several years and saw the people were in the main happy. but you didn't criticize the government or you go to jail. I hear it is the same there today. So It sounds like life in Viet Nam is similar, mostly happy people but isn't it the same as in Thailand, bitch about the government you go to jail?
What about protests? Did you see people massing in some numbers to bitch about the government or some company say dumping toxins in a stream?

Sure, from any philosophical, intellectual or objective perspective, it's democracy every time, but I look at the UK now (from a safe distance) and weep (metaphorically) . The country's going to the dogs, rapidly, take almost any aspect of it; poverty is increasing exponentially, as is homelessness, people are dying in their droves due to lack of investment in a once great health - service, and overworked nurses are having to use foodbanks because they aren't paid enough to pay the rent and eat. Take London out of the equation and the country is becoming 'third world', I could go on, but the point is....

The Tories blame Labour and Labour blames the Tories, ('Shat on by the Tories and shoveled up by Labour' doesn't really apply anymore) so we have this endless cycle of blame and counter - blame, and nobody actually addresses the problems. Nigel Farage (Mister 'Brexit' himself) and his merry gang of neo - fascists are forming a party, and working people will flock to him because there's nowhere else to go. It's fairly desperate, but the point is that democracy is failing the British people, and a benign, caring government in any form would make a better job of it, if there was nothing to protest about there'd be no need to protest.

I do take your point, but it isn't the only point.

@AverageJoe1 said
Please do a thread showing how homes prices will drop. As you write your simplistic presentation, do not leave out pesky market matters which might affect the price of a home.
Hey........if you are right about getting home prices lower, I'm buying with both hands.

You will until we make property taxes on your 3rd+ house progressive. 😆😆😆

Seriously, you are being willfully stupid about this. Houses are not an investment. They are a need - like a car. Houses produce nothing and pay no dividends - they are a cost sink.

So if you want to invest, buy something that produces a return. Don't just speculate and drive up the cost of housing for young people. And claim an obscene tax break! 😆

@AverageJoe1 said
lived in Thailand for several years and saw the people were in the main happy.

The worst shortage in Thailand is water. Thailand is currently facing its worst drought in possibly four decades, with many reservoirs at dangerously low levels and saltwater intrusion affecting drinking water supplies. This drought is impacting agriculture, particularly rice, sugar, and ru ...[text shortened]... oduction, and is expected to have significant economic consequences.


Sincerely, AvJoe's granny

Maybe Texas should send them some

@AverageJoe1 said
Quite a simplistic statement which, truly, leads no where. I will go fix the my garden trestle with hammer and nail, a bit of paint. I will work without a tax break. And so it goes. 🤔
I will also make a kite out of newspaper 🤔

Could you expound? Talk about an unfinished/unclosed post...........

As to tax breaks for rich, I started my secretary's son out, b ...[text shortened]... houses and .....he was not rich. I showed him the tax breaks. So, he got the breaks the rich got.

I'm sure you'll all manage fine without your ridiculous tax breaks. 😆

@AverageJoe1 said
.....' those innocent folks with ZERO arrest record..."
What folks? Do you know any of them? What church they go to, maybe. When they became citizens, what state of residence did they declare on IRS rolls?
I saw pictures of 10 of them, 5 male, 5 female, all headed for jail hopefully. Did you know any of them? Do you know anyone who might have known them? H ...[text shortened]... contribute to our charities....Do they 'give back' to their communities? Do they 'pay it forward''?

Do you care AT ALL there was NO due process? So how are YOU supposed to know if they are innocent of guilty of something? Also and here is a biggie, ok, they committed a real crime which would put them in jail for say 5 years.
Instead they are in El Salvador for LIFE.
But that doesn't bother you in the SLIGHTEST since you are a total MAGITE you totally take Trumps word for it, THEY ARE CRIMS Trump says, and you go OK MY LORD, they are criminals of the worse order, send them to El Salvador for life.

@Indonesia-Phil said
Sure, from any philosophical, intellectual or objective perspective, it's democracy every time, but I look at the UK now (from a safe distance) and weep (metaphorically) . The country's going to the dogs, rapidly, take almost any aspect of it; poverty is increasing exponentially, as is homelessness, people are dying in their droves due to lack of investment in a once g ...[text shortened]... protest about there'd be no need to protest.

I do take your point, but it isn't the only point.

I didn't know things were so dire in UK. Is it the same is Scotland or Ireland? Is this the result of Brexit?

@spruce112358 said
I'm sure you'll all manage fine without your ridiculous tax breaks. 😆

Manage fine. Yeah, anyone can manage. The people that live in Hovels and squalor alongthe road in Bangkok seem to manage. So you are about managing. I am about growth, prosperity, and success..
Either you are messing with me, or I am messing with you. I wonder which one it is.

@sonhouse said
Do you care AT ALL there was NO due process? So how are YOU supposed to know if they are innocent of guilty of something? Also and here is a biggie, ok, they committed a real crime which would put them in jail for say 5 years.
Instead they are in El Salvador for LIFE.
But that doesn't bother you in the SLIGHTEST since you are a total MAGITE you totally take Trumps word for ...[text shortened]... ys, and you go OK MY LORD, they are criminals of the worse order, send them to El Salvador for life.

ICE is doing their best today to track the children, Sonhouse., while fighting off all of your insidious brothers-in-arms shooting at them.
Could you tell us about that? Or, write about people in the wrong place at the wrong time. Tell us Sonhouse.
Let me see......which do I care about. Foreigners making their own beds, or children who do not know of anything beyond the sidewalk in front of them?
Bring it , Sonhouse.

@sonhouse said
Do you care AT ALL there was NO due process? So how are YOU supposed to know if they are innocent of guilty of something? Also and here is a biggie, ok, they committed a real crime which would put them in jail for say 5 years.
Instead they are in El Salvador for LIFE.
But that doesn't bother you in the SLIGHTEST since you are a total MAGITE you totally take Trumps word for ...[text shortened]... ys, and you go OK MY LORD, they are criminals of the worse order, send them to El Salvador for life.

Trump? 300,000 abandoned children? What's it gonna be for the Sonhouse!?!?

@AverageJoe1 said
No, and I don’t see what that means. But I can certainly tell you what I try to tell you that you did not get… When a person has responsibilities in their life regarding the raising of a family, housing, owning that around them, which they build by their own sweat, owing to no one, and not depending on government, they naturally become self reliant. This leads to a heal ...[text shortened]... hese statements. You do not have to type the word self-reliant if you don’t want to. You never have.

For the vast majority of workers in a capitalist system, self-reliance is impossible. Over 90% work for a capitalist and during their work hours are subject to the whims of their bosses. How can they "owe to no one" when their very livelihood is dependent on someone else? Moreover, even if they are compliant and productive (i.e. make the capitalist an acceptable - to the capitalist - amount of money), there is no certainty that their job will exist tomorrow - the system has periodic times of recession and depression with high employment. The worker might own his house, but if economic conditions cause the elimination of his job and an inability to find another at similar renumeration and he will not be able to pay the mortgage he will soon lose it. This has happened en masse many times throughout US history.

So no one really should use the term "self reliant" when referring to the great majority of those in this society; it is chimera for them.

@no1marauder said
For the vast majority of workers in a capitalist system, self-reliance is impossible. Over 90% work for a capitalist and during their work hours are subject to the whims of their bosses. How can they "owe to no one" when their very livelihood is dependent on someone else? Moreover, even if they are compliant and productive (i.e. make the capitalist an acceptable - to the ...[text shortened]... self reliant" when referring to the great majority of those in this society; it is chimera for them.

This poster, a disciple of socialism, decries self reliance. His post literally says you cannot ‘make it’ in the United States of America.
I have no words.

@AverageJoe1 said
ICE is doing their best today to track the children, Sonhouse., while fighting off all of your insidious brothers-in-arms shooting at them.
Could you tell us about that? Or, write about people in the wrong place at the wrong time. Tell us Sonhouse.
Let me see......which do I care about. Foreigners making their own beds, or children who do not know of anything beyond the sidewalk in front of them?
Bring it , Sonhouse.

In your snide remarks I was referencing the safety of ICE agents as well as folks under arrest.
Those agents are not trained in crowd control. But besides that the WHOLE AFFAIR is illegal.
Don't you get the 4th amendment, UNREASONALBE arrest and seizure? Does that mean NOTHING to you?
BLATANTLY against the constitution, Secret police JUST LIKE RUSSIA or CHINA.
So everything is so screwed up it is the new normal to have secret police now with a budget BIGGER THAN THE MARINE CORP. So they will soon be in every nook and cranny in the country.
I ask you again. Is that ok with you? SECRET POLICE literally refusing to ID themselves which has been the lawful way you arrest people in the past, is the new normal so out of place it IS normal now?
If you don't want to admit it is ok, why not?

@AverageJoe1 said
Trump? 300,000 abandoned children? What's it gonna be for the Sonhouse!?!?

What 300K abandoned kids? Show me a link or is that just another Newmax POS.

What is PROVEN real is the FIVE THOUSAND children held in cages YEARS ago and a lot of them still have not found their parents and so much time has gone by they probably wouldn't recognize them if they WERE brought together BESIDES the EIGHT children who DIED in that hell hole in Trump's first term, BTW set up by the dude who set up ICE, STEPHEN MILLER. a TRUE assshole if ever there was one, a slimy bastard who should be forever picking up garbage on the sides of the streets in the US for the rest of his life.

@AverageJoe1 said
Manage fine. Yeah, anyone can manage. The people that live in Hovels and squalor alongthe road in Bangkok seem to manage. So you are about managing. I am about growth, prosperity, and success..
Either you are messing with me, or I am messing with you. I wonder which one it is.

I am about protecting everyone's rights equally. 😆

Not giving rich people special "participation trophies" (i.e. unearned tax breaks) just for being rich. 😆