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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    30 Sep '10 14:55
    What exactly is better on the planet considering the gods religious folk profess to believe in? Why are 3 year old girls dying from cancer? Exactly what grand plan includes the killing of infants by taliban with their bombing of christians and whatever sect of Islam they don't like? Can someone explain why your god allows such atrocities to take place? It sounds to me an awful lot like your gods don't give a rats asss about humans, we are being left out to dry.
    I don't see any help coming from your gods. It sure didn't help the dinosaurs to have a god around now did it? Do you really think it would be any different if some super volcano blew up half of Colorado? Did some god come down and stop the tsunami from killing 200,000 Indonesians? I didn't see some godly finger come down and put a clamp on that tsunami. Or the earthquake in Haiti, where was your god there?

    Can't you see we are all alone on this jewel of a planet and what you see is what you get? If a ten mile wide asteroid crashes into Earth, do you think your god is going to stop it? Didn't see much sign of that happening the last time 65 million years ago.

    Yet here we are, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindi, all fighting wars over these gods you say you worship. If you truly worshiped those gods, why do think its alright to kill people who believe in other religions?
  2. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    30 Sep '10 15:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    ......If you truly worshiped those gods, why do think its alright to kill people who believe in other religions?
    ..isn't like that the answer in a nutshell? true worship and respect for ones respective God should produce an attitude of humble grace and respect for humanity and nature. .......the fact that we see all the degradation of the human spirit and of nature, surely suggests a couple of easy possibilities.....that God does not exist, or that those who claim to follow God and find themselves in positions of power, get thrown by the excesses of power and as they begin following their own heart's dictates they end up preying on the more trusting individuals that still maintain the value of their chosen religion..........

    .....moral of story; trust your heart, your head will eventually follow.
  3. 30 Sep '10 22:05
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What exactly is better on the planet considering the gods religious folk profess to believe in? Why are 3 year old girls dying from cancer? Exactly what grand plan includes the killing of infants by taliban with their bombing of christians and whatever sect of Islam they don't like? Can someone explain why your god allows such atrocities to take place? It s ...[text shortened]... hiped those gods, why do think its alright to kill people who believe in other religions?
    I'm religious and I've never said "we are better with God." That would be like saying "We're better with an oxygen-mitrogen atmosphere."
  4. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    30 Sep '10 22:13
    Originally posted by kmax87
    ..isn't like that the answer in a nutshell? true worship and respect for ones respective God should produce an attitude of humble grace and respect for humanity and nature. .......the fact that we see all the degradation of the human spirit and of nature, surely suggests a couple of easy possibilities.....that God does not exist, or that those who claim to f ...[text shortened]... religion..........

    .....moral of story; trust your heart, your head will eventually follow.
    First reason - then emotion.

    Let your head stir your heart.

    The alternative is; you'll love without ever knowing why, laugh at that which is not funny and get stressed over that which you have no control.
  5. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    01 Oct '10 10:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    First reason - then emotion.

    Let your head stir your heart.

    reason and emotion both have their place. Most of our experiences are processed by the emotional parts of the brain before making it to the rational part. how often do we dismiss a person on first meeting them where there was no rational reason for doing so. The point is the brain sorts out influences, events, people, in short cut fashion, because it does not want to be overloaded. The emotions greatly accelerate this sorting out process, so that the rational side only has bite sized pieces to deal with.

    the fact that you dismis christianity probably stems from an emotional reaction to it, that may have been a monkey see monkey do posturing that was part and parcel of the reaction of significant family members, or the peer group you were part of at school. for sure you may have looked into it rationally, but without an emotional faith based attitude, did rational belief ever stand a chance?

    By the same token I recognize that I am a believer because of my belief at a very young age. I can read about atheism, I can like a method actor put on a belief that what we see here is all there is, but my rejection of that is usually an emotional response. yes it is bound by a rational frame, but I believe in things unseen.
  6. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    01 Oct '10 11:45
    Originally posted by kmax87
    reason and emotion both have their place. Most of our experiences are processed by the emotional parts of the brain before making it to the rational part. how often do we dismiss a person on first meeting them where there was no rational reason for doing so. The point is the brain sorts out influences, events, people, in short cut fashion, because it does not ...[text shortened]... ally an emotional response. yes it is bound by a rational frame, but I believe in things unseen.
    The main problem with religion is there is no way for objective proof of god, you only have books written by men and the occasional woman. There is no way a god would set up a religious structure that excludes women, putting men on top of the totem pole and women far below as is the case now. There are pretty much no equal religions when it comes to sexual equality. It seems patently obvious god would not require the top dog so to speak to have a penis. A real god would make sure women would not be enslaved, raped, beaten, killed as they are now. A real god would set up unbreakable rules about that kind of behavior. As it stands now, all we have are books written mainly by men. Why is that I wonder? You can't say 'I am the lord almighty' in a book written by men and then say, oh, by the way, only men get to worship in THIS temple, women have to worship over there in that shed with the cow dung. Only men get to be in positions of power, women have to cover their bodies head to foot so men can bear to stand the sight of them without wanting to rape them on the spot. Yessir, quite a setup you have there. How CONVENIENT.
  7. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Oct '10 11:54
    Originally posted by kmax87
    reason and emotion both have their place. Most of our experiences are processed by the emotional parts of the brain before making it to the rational part. how often do we dismiss a person on first meeting them where there was no rational reason for doing so. The point is the brain sorts out influences, events, people, in short cut fashion, because it does not ...[text shortened]... ally an emotional response. yes it is bound by a rational frame, but I believe in things unseen.
    The fact that I do not dicuss god-bothering here is due to it belonging on another board with all the other discussions about goblins, fairies and santa ouiji boards.
  8. 01 Oct '10 12:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What exactly is better on the planet considering the gods religious folk profess to believe in? Why are 3 year old girls dying from cancer? Exactly what grand plan includes the killing of infants by taliban with their bombing of christians and whatever sect of Islam they don't like? Can someone explain why your god allows such atrocities to take place? It s hiped those gods, why do think its alright to kill people who believe in other religions?
    Putting aside the dramma in your post, the real question is, why is there suffering and death if there is a God? It is an age old question that I believe belongs in the spirituality forum. In fact, didn't Christ once say, "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?
  9. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    01 Oct '10 13:04
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    The fact that I do not dicuss god-bothering here is due to it belonging on another board with all the other discussions about goblins, fairies and santa ouiji boards.
    nice dodge
  10. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    01 Oct '10 13:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Only men get to be in positions of power, women have to cover their bodies head to foot so men can bear to stand the sight of them without wanting to rape them on the spot. Yessir, quite a setup you have there. How CONVENIENT.
    make up your mind. either God exists or he does not. If as you seem to lean he does not exist, why beat yourself around the head trying to find rational reasons, that sound more like a gendered rant. What about all the other religions at the time of the Bible. notice any large scale adoption of women into the religious service, where they lead the faithful to a higher plane. possibly those religions that practised temple prostitution may have done that, but I dont think you can call that empowerment.

    end of story in a nutshell. religion works within the culture it finds itself in. When the culture is regressive and repressed, then so is the religion.

    if you want to live in a cave and ruminate about the past, then your observations will remain true, but just look at Australia for a second, top position of governmental authority---a woman-----top politician by popular election-----the prime minister--a woman----ceo of one of the top 4 banks----a woman----most probable face when watching the TV news/current affairs---a woman.

    does this new reality bring change to religion? ...........absolutely! most religious content is now delivered in a gender neutral way which means that ordained women of which there are a low percentage currently, will in another generation be quite common.

    what does that mean? religion lags popular change by a generation or two. if thats the worst outcome, whats the problem
  11. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    01 Oct '10 14:18
    Originally posted by kmax87
    make up your mind. either God exists or he does not. If as you seem to lean he does not exist, why beat yourself around the head trying to find rational reasons, that sound more like a gendered rant. What about all the other religions at the time of the Bible. notice any large scale adoption of women into the religious service, where they lead the faithful t ...[text shortened]... ligion lags popular change by a generation or two. if thats the worst outcome, whats the problem
    Well in Islam that lag is more like 100 generations. In christianity that bias just gets a bit more subtle.
  12. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    01 Oct '10 14:23
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    First reason - then emotion.

    Let your head stir your heart.

    The alternative is; you'll love without ever knowing why, laugh at that which is not funny and get stressed over that which you have no control.
    There's more koolaid at the end of table
  13. 01 Oct '10 16:26
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What exactly is better on the planet considering the gods religious folk profess to believe in? Why are 3 year old girls dying from cancer? Exactly what grand plan includes the killing of infants by taliban with their bombing of christians and whatever sect of Islam they don't like? Can someone explain why your god allows such atrocities to take place? It s ...[text shortened]... hiped those gods, why do think its alright to kill people who believe in other religions?
    take it to spirituality spanky.
  14. 01 Oct '10 17:01
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    The fact that I do not dicuss god-bothering here is due to it belonging on another board with all the other discussions about goblins, fairies and santa ouiji boards.
    Indeed, I believe we have to respect wajoma's fundamentalist atheist views, after all, he has solved the riddle philosophers and theologians have struggled with for millenia.