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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    30 Sep '10 08:38 / 1 edit
    "The individuals in the Tea Party may come from very different walks of life, but most of them have a few things in common. After nearly a year of talking with Tea Party members from Nevada to New Jersey, I can count on one hand the key elements I expect to hear in nearly every interview. One: Every single one of them was that exceptional Republican who did protest the spending in the Bush years, and not one of them is the hypocrite who only took to the streets when a black Democratic president launched an emergency stimulus program. ("Not me — I was protesting!" is a common exclamation.) Two: Each and every one of them is the only person in America who has ever read the Constitution or watched Schoolhouse Rock. (Here they have guidance from Armey, who explains that the problem with "people who do not cherish America the way we do" is that "they did not read the Federalist Papers." Three: They are all furious at the implication that race is a factor in their political views — despite the fact that they blame the financial crisis on poor black homeowners, spend months on end engrossed by reports about how the New Black Panthers want to kill "cracker babies," support politicians who think the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was an overreach of government power, tried to enact South African-style immigration laws in Arizona and obsess over Charlie Rangel, ACORN and Barack Obama's birth certificate. Four: In fact, some of their best friends are black! (Reporters in Kentucky invented a game called "White Male Liberty Patriot Bingo," checking off a box every time a Tea Partier mentions a black friend.) And five: Everyone who disagrees with them is a radical leftist who hates America."

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904

    Way better than the Obama interview, which was rubbish.
  2. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    30 Sep '10 09:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by DrKF
    "The individuals in the Tea Party may come from very different walks of life, but most of them have a few things in common. After nearly a year of talking with Tea Party members from Nevada to New Jersey, I can count on one hand the key elements I expect to hear in nearly every interview.
    From the same article, loved this bit

    As Palin launches into her Ronald Reagan impression — "Government's not the solution! Government's the problem!" — the person sitting next to me leans over and explains.

    "The scooters are because of Medicare," he whispers helpfully. "They have these commercials down here: 'You won't even have to pay for your scooter! Medicare will pay!' Practically everyone in Kentucky has one."

    A hall full of elderly white people in Medicare-paid scooters, railing against government spending and imagining themselves revolutionaries as they cheer on the vice-presidential puppet hand-picked by the GOP establishment. If there exists a better snapshot of everything the Tea Party represents, I can't imagine it.
  3. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    30 Sep '10 10:00
    Suddenly, tens of thousands of Republicans who had been conspicuously silent during George Bush's gargantuan spending on behalf of defense contractors and hedge-fund gazillionaires showed up at Tea Party rallies across the nation, declaring themselves fed up with wasteful government spending.


    I wonder if this can actually be good for conservatives. They have this screeching minority pushing the boundary towards the right that are too incoherent to be taken serious but repeatedly make the headlines with anti-Liberal rhetoric. It makes Republicans seem they are at the center. The only thing they need to get under control in the tea party's agenda is the anti-GOP rhetoric. It's good for them that they can distance themselves, but I'm not sure if it's good to repeatedly hear that they are establishment sell outs.
  4. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    30 Sep '10 10:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Palynka
    I wonder if this can actually be good for conservatives. They have this screeching minority pushing the boundary towards the right that are too incoherent to be taken serious but repeatedly make the headlines with anti-Liberal rhetoric. It makes Republicans seem they are at the center. The only thing they need to get under control in the tea party's agenda i ves, but I'm not sure if it's good to repeatedly hear that they are establishment sell outs.

    In Lexington, I pose the same question to Mica Sims, a local Tea Party organizer. "You as a private-property owner have the right to refuse service for whatever reason you feel will better your business," she says, comparing the Civil Rights Act to onerous anti-smoking laws. "If you're for small government, you're for small government."

    You look into the eyes of these people when you talk to them and they genuinely don't see what the problem is. It's no use explaining that while nobody likes the idea of having to get the government to tell restaurant owners how to act, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was the tool Americans were forced to use to end a monstrous system of apartheid that for 100 years was the shame of the entire Western world. But all that history is not real to Tea Partiers; what's real to them is the implication in your question that they're racists, and to them that is the outrage, and it's an outrage that binds them together. They want desperately to believe in the one-size-fits-all, no-government theology of Rand Paul because it's so easy to understand. At times, their desire to withdraw from the brutally complex global economic system that is an irrevocable fact of our modern life and get back to a simpler world that no longer exists is so intense, it breaks your heart.


    I think this bit answers some of your reflection. I don't think the GOP care how their power and influence is resurected, but only that is does.

    edit: Kudo's to Dr K for sourcing a really excellent article btw.
  5. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    30 Sep '10 10:12
    Originally posted by kmax87
    I think this bit answers some of your reflection. I don't think the GOP care how their power and influence is resurected, but only that is does.

    edit: Kudo's to Dr K for sourcing a really excellent article btw.
    I don't see how that answers it, can you elaborate?
  6. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    30 Sep '10 10:18
    Originally posted by Palynka
    I don't see how that answers it, can you elaborate?
    It was further along in the article to be true. Once you're inside the stream of consciousness it kind of references the bit in question in different ways. This bit should do it though.

    This is a party that in 2008 was not just beaten but obliterated, with nearly every one of its recognizable leaders reduced to historical-footnote status and pinned with blame for some ghastly political catastrophe. There were literally no healthy bodies left on the bench, but the Republicans managed to get back in the game anyway by plucking an assortment of nativist freaks, village idiots and Internet Hitlers out of thin air and training them into a giant ball of incoherent resentment just in time for the 2010 midterms. They returned to prominence by outdoing Barack Obama at his own game: turning out masses of energized and disciplined supporters on the streets and overwhelming the ballot box with sheer enthusiasm.
  7. 30 Sep '10 13:14
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Suddenly, tens of thousands of Republicans who had been conspicuously silent during George Bush's gargantuan spending on behalf of defense contractors and hedge-fund gazillionaires showed up at Tea Party rallies across the nation, declaring themselves fed up with wasteful government spending.


    I wonder if this can actually be good for conse ...[text shortened]... es, but I'm not sure if it's good to repeatedly hear that they are establishment sell outs.
    It will be a great help for the rich donors if they get those Bush tax cuts extended. From that point on these stories and these people will dry up and blow away.
  8. 30 Sep '10 13:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by kmax87
    From the same article, loved this bit

    As Palin launches into her Ronald Reagan impression — "Government's not the solution! Government's the problem!" — the person sitting next to me leans over and explains.

    "The scooters are because of Medicare," he whispers helpfully. "They have these commercials down here: 'You won't even have to pay for your better snapshot of everything the Tea Party represents, I can't imagine it.
    http://www.scooter.com/

    three of the four scooters pictured cost less than $800 (or you can splurge and buy the luxury model for $1600).

    Y'all here in kentucky want less government? Good. So I will start with a proposal to eliminate Medicare coverage for scooters. Unless you're extremely poor, you can save up your pennies and pay for scooters out of your own pocket.

    I am sure that none of you here is one of those cowardly "OPP conservatives" -- where you oppose government as long as it involves Other Peoples' Programs.
  9. 30 Sep '10 13:43
    I think the article is very much on target concluding that the Tea Party is not so much an ideology as just a vehicle for Us Versus Them - it gives people a sense of belonging.
  10. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    30 Sep '10 14:19
    Originally posted by DrKF
    Way better than the Obama interview, which was rubbish.
    You don't think the slobbering pro-Obama nature of the former reflects on the conclusions reached or "facts" presented in the latter?
  11. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    30 Sep '10 14:22
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    http://www.scooter.com/

    three of the four scooters pictured cost less than $800 (or you can splurge and buy the luxury model for $1600).

    for 2,999 you can buy a pride persuit pmv. lovely, absolutely lovely...
  12. 30 Sep '10 15:55
    Originally posted by DrKF
    "The individuals in the Tea Party may come from very different walks of life, but most of them have a few things in common. After nearly a year of talking with Tea Party members from Nevada to New Jersey, I can count on one hand the key elements I expect to hear in nearly every interview. One: Every single one of them was that exceptional Republican who did pro ...[text shortened]... litics/news/17390/210904

    Way better than the Obama interview, which was rubbish.
    there's so much hyperbole, how can we winnow the grain from the chaff?

    did he follow anyone around for months to be able to say they " spend months on end engrossed by reports about how the New Black Panthers want to kill "cracker babies," "?
  13. 30 Sep '10 16:01
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    You don't think the slobbering pro-Obama nature of the former reflects on the conclusions reached or "facts" presented in the latter?
    nevertheless -- do you think that a proposal to eliminate Medicare's funding of scooters would go over well with that audience?
  14. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    30 Sep '10 16:29
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    nevertheless -- do you think that a proposal to eliminate Medicare's funding of scooters would go over well with that audience?
    depends if they muck around with the cost of their lithium milk-shakes or their zyprexa wafers......
  15. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    30 Sep '10 18:42
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    You don't think the slobbering pro-Obama nature of the former reflects on the conclusions reached or "facts" presented in the latter?
    I don't think it (the latter) presents itself as impartial in any way, and the 'facts' are presented as exactly what they are: observations/opinions. I just thought it was a good read...