Originally posted by @kellyjayToO has no clue was your contention. ; If you think his point is not worth hearing then explain why.
"Otherwise you wouldn't have once again cited the words of Paul to support your position."
Yes, when he said this, nothing he says about scripture from this point on in my opinion is
worth hearing. You are responding to me now, what about those times you accused me
of twisting scripture and when I asked where and how you disappear after you accuse
me of something else, moving the goal posts. I'm being truthful here, are you?
. I'm always entirely truthful to the best of my abilities. If I am being deceitful in any way then that is between me and the Lord. I concede I may be ignorant at times however once I realize it I dont make the same mistake twice.
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou have repeatedly spoken like other Christians about believing in Jesus and having faith in Him to have eternal life. This is just wrong.
I'd like you to find a time I have done that and point it out, be specific. Otherwise your
humble opinion is just noise, all accusation and no specific examples.
Originally posted by @karoly-aczelBecause you say so, or do you have scripture backing that up?
You have repeatedly spoken like other Christians about believing in Jesus and having faith in Him to have eternal life. This is just wrong.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneThis is interesting. Do you give any credence to the theory that Paul was some sort of under cover agent of the Pharisees sent to discredit the message of Jesus?
... Instead of placing your confidence in the words spoken by God to the later OT prophets and the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, you and the vast majority of Christians place your confidence in the words of Paul. None of the verses you cited were spoken by God to the later OT prophets or in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministr ...[text shortened]...
There IS no need for Paul's nonsense about Jesus' atoning sacrifice being necessary ...
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Originally posted by @karoly-aczelBe specific please, you lack substance. You saying so carry’s no weight. You are not the beacon of truth for the world that would be Jesus Christ.
Is you memory leaking? Has not Rajk, ToO and myself not provided enough reference? So I'm not going to re-reference scripture for you here, I'll just keep it simple.
Because I say so . 🙂
Originally posted by @ragwortHave never been interested enough in the theory to investigate it. On the face of it, it seems illogical for that to have been the case. .
This is interesting. Do you give any credence to the theory that Paul was some sort of under cover agent of the Pharisees sent to discredit the message of Jesus?
Originally posted by @thinkofoneThe OT ways of dealing sin was temporary and it did nothing to change hearts of sinners, both those that were striving to serve God and those that were not.
Well. you do have a way of losing track of the points of a discussion. Let's see if I can get you back on track.
[b]So this get good enough, get righteous enough on our own, isn't possible.
God (in the OT) and Jesus (in the NT) called their followers to make themselves righteous. Evidently you don't believe them.
Isaiah 1
16“Wash yourselv ...[text shortened]... see death.”
John 15
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.[/b]
The OT points to Jesus, and Jesus the Word of God made flesh is the One we are to put our faith in. So His words and deeds all matter. Jesus as He was leaving us as a man, pointed us to the Holy Spirit, who fills us, teaching us, appoints people to do Gods work.
You disagree with people God used, between them and you I going with them. If you reject all of Paul’s books, do you reject Luke’s two books, since he traveled with Paul and wrote about him and his appointment by God? Do you also reject Peter’s letters too, because he said Paul letters were very important? If you reject Peter who walked with Jesus, whose letters do you accept and why?
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou seem to have gone off on yet another tangent. Instead of deflecting like you usually do, how about addressing the issue head on?
The OT ways of dealing sin was temporary and it did nothing to change hearts of sinners, both those that were striving to serve God and those that were not.
The OT points to Jesus, and Jesus the Word of God made flesh is the One we are to put our faith in. So His words and deeds all matter. Jesus as He was leaving us as a man, pointed us to the Holy Spi ...[text shortened]... very important? If you reject Peter who walked with Jesus, whose letters do you accept and why?
To keep it simple for you, let's take them one at a time
In Isaiah 1, God clearly and unambiguously tells His people that they must "make [themselves] clean" by "ceas[ing] to do evil" and "learn[ing] to do good". He tells them that if they do this "“Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool." That they not only can, but MUST "make [themselves] clean".
Clearly God believed it "possible" for people to "get good enough, get righteous enough on [their] own".
Do you believe God was mistaken?
Originally posted by @thinkofoneJesus said the same thing. In His longest and most detailed sermon, Jesus listed all that people need to do to live righteously and do good works which leads to eternal life. He ended this sermon with this sentence:
You seem to have gone off on yet another tangent. Instead of deflecting like you usually do, how about addressing the issue head on?
To keep it simple for you, let's take them one at a time
In Isaiah 1, God clearly and unambiguously tells His people that they must "make [themselves] clean" by "ceas[ing] to do evil" and "learn[ing] to do good". He t ...[text shortened]... e to "get good enough, get righteous enough on [their] own".
Do you believe God was mistaken?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:48 KJV)
People are to aim for perfection which clearly Jesus thought was entirely possible.
The church with its doctrine of the depravity of man, which tells them that they are hopelessly evil and sinful, has destroyed peoples desire to do anything. Add to that nonsense doctrine is the one where proclamations of faith with ones mouth is sufficient for eternal life is another nail in their coffin. The church and all its followers are lost souls.
Originally posted by @kellyjayThere's a very scholarly book that argues the Paul was in the pay of the Romans. PM me if you want to dip into the audio book version of it.
Be specific please, you lack substance. You saying so carry’s no weight. You are not the beacon of truth for the world that would be Jesus Christ.
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Originally posted by @kellyjayWith all due respect I really dont give a crap what you think right now. Specific about what?
Be specific please, you lack substance. You saying so carry’s no weight. You are not the beacon of truth for the world that would be Jesus Christ.
Beacon of truth? I whole-heartedly invite any and all posters to investigate any of my suggestions vigorously.
I believe Ghost has been hounding my posts relentlessly for a while now.
As I remember this is what he came up with so far: that I sometimes swear and promote informed decisions regarding drug use as a blight on my forum posts.
I have no problems with this. As far as my other contentions about spirituality I welcome any inquiries.
But to say I lack substance is a bit off the mark, I would suggest. I have given my take on several subjects here without fear or favour.
It should not be upto me to repeat my claims ad nauseum .
In the absence of Jesus I would suggest you start to work it out for yourself