Originally posted by Rajk999
God likes anyone that does good works. Jesus said it clearly .. those who do good worrks will enter the Kingdom of God.
Mmm hmm. So the atheist that bypasses Jesus' greatest commandment, takes the trash out for the old lady next door, and voila.
And you questioned my understanding of Scripture.
Originally posted by FMFIt's not your intelligence that's in question. It's your motive.
Simply questioning my intelligence - while certainly being a bit of online bravado that might give you a kick - it is not a proper contribution to the discussion.
One can torture the scriptures to make them confess to anything. It's no wonder you give Rajk a pass on his postings. You know what the Bible teaches, yet you essentially join forces with the heretical ramblings of a legalistic judaizer.
...it is not a proper contribution to the discussion."
Like Rajk you're a control freak. What's not a proper contribution to this discussion is the twisting of the scriptures to mean what you want them to mean. And you know you're doing it. That brings into question your motive.
Originally posted by josephwI put forward an interpretation you disagree with about the supposed "conversion" and you said "Even the most negligibly intelligent person reading the account can understand the thief's conversion was genuine." How is that not questioning my intelligence?
It's not your intelligence that's in question. It's your motive.
Originally posted by josephwOne can torture the scriptures to make them confess to anything. It's no wonder you give Rajk a pass on his postings. You know what the Bible teaches, yet you essentially join forces with the heretical ramblings of a legalistic judaizer. [...] Like Rajk you're a control freak. What's not a proper contribution to this discussion is the twisting of the scriptures to mean what you want them to mean. And you know you're doing it. That brings into question your motive.
I am taking a stance in our discussion that you disagree with, that's all. How can doing so be described as being a "control freak"? What is your definition of "control freak"?
Originally posted by josephw... the thief's conversion was genuine.
Even the most negligibly intelligent person reading the account can understand the thief's conversion was genuine.
Why do you insist this is so?
Do you think the thief's supposed conversion provides the basis for a major piece of Christian doctrine, in your view, or is it an incidental detail?
Originally posted by SuzianneIf one can be justified by works then it follows one can be unjustified by lack of works.
'Justified by'.
NOT 'Driven by'.
Big difference.
Rajk and his 'crew' here seem 'driven by'... and that is hardly 'justified by'.
That alone should 'drive' you to do good works. You very salvation is at stake!
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI have not seen anyone here say we don't have to do good works, but what has been said
If one can be justified by works then it follows one can be unjustified by lack of works.
That alone should 'drive' you to do good works. You very salvation is at stake!
is that it isn't our works, but Jesus' work, His blood that cleans us. Our righteousness is
from God, and as we follow the LIVING God's Spirit, we will be doing God's Work.
So when it is brought up here by those that want to trust in just their efforts, they bring a
distinction between themselves and those that trust in God's Work. Jesus effort for us
is given to us through faith, so we can rest in striving for our righteousness by our efforts
to good enough. Instead by believing what God has done for us, our walk with God starts
in this life through the Spirit of God, and if we do not have God's Spirit we do not belong
to God.
If there are people who think they don't have to do anything but follow their own flesh they
are not walking with God's Spirit, instead they are in the flesh, they are sinners who love
their sins and they will die in them unless they repent and turn to God.
Originally posted by KellyJayGod expects you to lead a good life Kelly and will reward you for doing so. It's no more complicated than that.
I have not seen anyone here say we don't have to do good works, but what has been said
is that it isn't our works, but Jesus' work, His blood that cleans us. Our righteousness is
from God, and as we follow the LIVING God's Spirit, we will be doing God's Work.
So when it is brought up here by those that want to trust in just their efforts, they bring a ...[text shortened]... y are sinners who love
their sins and they will die in them unless they repent and turn to God.
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Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeAgain, have you read the NT? We see that how we live our lives is something that really
God expects you to lead a good life Kelly and will reward you for doing so. It's no more complicated than that.
does matter, just how good is a good life that God accepts? Scripturally it says that those
that are walking after the flesh cannot please God, what good will anything they do matter
if nothing they do can please God? God requires that have His Spirit and not follow after the
lusts of our flesh, not walk out our lives that way, but instead with Him following His Spirit
walk out our lives. It is no more complicated that that!
Why do you continue to tell me what someone you don't believe in expects?
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Originally posted by FMFIs there any Bible scholar you can quote that shares your interpretation? Yes or No?
I put forward an interpretation you disagree with about the supposed "conversion" and you said "Even the most negligibly intelligent person reading the account can understand the thief's conversion was genuine." How is that [b]not questioning my intelligence?[/b]
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeUmmm, but no.
If one can be justified by works then it follows one can be unjustified by lack of works.
That alone should 'drive' you to do good works. You very salvation is at stake!
That's not how it works. Is "un-justification" an undoing of justification? No, there's plenty of carts-before-the-horses going on around here lately.
How often do atheists convert because they're afraid of "hellfire and damnation"? Never, because if they believe in "hellfire and damnation", apparently, they're not atheists.
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, "If there are".
I have not seen anyone here say we don't have to do good works, but what has been said
is that it isn't our works, but Jesus' work, His blood that cleans us. Our righteousness is
from God, and as we follow the LIVING God's Spirit, we will be doing God's Work.
So when it is brought up here by those that want to trust in just their efforts, they bring a ...[text shortened]... y are sinners who love
their sins and they will die in them unless they repent and turn to God.
"If there are", I don't know any. Because when one starts changing their worldview to the point where the Holy Spirit is no longer in them, then they are simply not the same Christian they were before. Those people may not feel like "doing works", but then they're not Christian any more, either. It's this type of Christian Robbie used to call a "nominal" Christian and it's plain that these types don't have the indwelling spirit.
But there are always those who like to point their plastic finger at all Christians and claim they're like those other "Christians" who claim to be Christian and yet aren't really.
No, they're not. People who do this are judging, without even knowing anything about them, and their agenda is to present all Christians as bad people, probably to make themselves feel better.
Originally posted by KellyJayI believe sir you need to do less reading and more study.
Again, have you read the NT? We see that how we live our lives is something that really
does matter, just how good is a good life that God accepts? Scripturally it says that those
that are walking after the flesh cannot please God, what good will anything they do matter
if nothing they do can please God? God requires that have His Spirit and not follow a ...[text shortened]... plicated that that!
Why do you continue to tell me what someone you don't believe in expects?
To understand dinosaurs one doesn't need to be a dinosaur.