1. Standard memberKellyJay
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    08 Oct '18 09:421 edit
    Luke 18 ESV

    9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    08 Oct '18 09:57
    @kellyjay said
    For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
    One of the fascinating things about this forum is how many of its Christians so often exalt themselves while not appearing to be engaged in humbling themselves at all.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    08 Oct '18 12:031 edit
    Luke 18 ESV

    9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”



    Whew! Sounds like me.

    Thank God for the blood of Jesus.
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    08 Oct '18 13:52
    @sonship said
    Luke 18 ESV

    9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even ...[text shortened]... himself will be exalted.”



    Whew! Sounds like me.

    Thank God for the blood of Jesus.
    This one and remove the logs from our own eyes gets me too.
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Oct '18 14:07
    @fmf said
    One of the fascinating things about this forum is how many of its Christians so often exalt themselves while not appearing to be engaged in humbling themselves at all.
    It's just a story from a book you don't believe in.

    It's not worth getting all grumpy at people who relate it.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    08 Oct '18 14:14
    @suzianne said
    It's just a story from a book you don't believe in.

    It's not worth getting all grumpy at people who relate it.
    It's not the story I am talking about. It's the moral that is extracted from it. It strikes me as self-deceiving.
  7. Standard memberKellyJay
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    08 Oct '18 16:47
    @fmf said
    It's not the story I am talking about. It's the moral that is extracted from it. It strikes me as self-deceiving.
    The self deceiving aspect of it are those who think they are better than others while patting themselves on the back for all they do. We all fall short!
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    08 Oct '18 17:341 edit
    @kellyjay said
    The self deceiving aspect of it are those who think they are better than others while patting themselves on the back for all they do. We all fall short!
    The self-deceiving aspect of it is things like Christians trotting out the last sentence of your OP.

    Christians equate being "born again" with modesty. They go around talking about how they have found "God" and how "God" has a special purpose for them.

    They poopoo the different "Gods" of other theists. They brandish their supposed personal monopoly of "the truth". They even peddle the idea that dissenters deserve to be tortured for their thoughtcrimes.

    This is all presented as "humility", although it seems more like complete and utter immodesty to me - to claim that one has been "chosen" in this way - or that one can possibly know that one has been selected - ahead of billions and billions of other walking-talking human beings.

    Meanwhile, one is characterizing everyone as "evil and wicked" but ~ hey presto ~ as for oneself ~ ah yes, one is "forgiven" for all this and rendered "righteous" in the eyes of a supernatural being [with whom one supposedly has a "personal relationship"] - thanks to some ideology that one has memorized and internalized - and which will result in one being immortal in an afterlife.

    It's arrogant and conceited and egotistical. It's the diametrically opposite of humility.
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    08 Oct '18 19:17
    @fmf said
    The self-deceiving aspect of it is things like Christians trotting out the last sentence of your OP.

    Christians equate being "born again" with modesty. They go around talking about how they have found "God" and how "God" has a special purpose for them.

    They poopoo the different "Gods" of other theists. They brandish their supposed personal monopoly of "the truth". They eve ...[text shortened]... rlife.

    It's arrogant and conceited and egotistical. It's the diametrically opposite of humility.
    If you think you are righteous enough on your own, or don’t worry about such things, it is on you.
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    08 Oct '18 19:281 edit
    @kellyjay said
    If you think you are righteous enough on your own, or don’t worry about such things, it is on you.

    Ezekiel 33
    10“Now as for you, son of man, say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus you have spoken, saying, “Surely our transgressions and our sins are upon us, and we are rotting away in them; how then can we survive?”’ 11“Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord GOD, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’

    14“But when I say to the wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, 15if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16“None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live.
    17“Yet your fellow citizens say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right,’ when it is their own way that is not right.


    Your post has you standing right along with "your fellow citizens" saying "‘The way of the Lord is not right".
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    08 Oct '18 22:33
    @kellyjay said
    If you think you are righteous enough on your own, or don’t worry about such things, it is on you.
    You don't seem to understand the point about "humility" that I have raised with you.
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    08 Oct '18 22:48
    @kellyjay said
    The self deceiving aspect of it are those who think they are better than others while patting themselves on the back for all they do. We all fall short!
    Ever met Raj?
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    08 Oct '18 22:55
    @fmf said
    You don't seem to understand the point about "humility" that I have raised with you.
    Well according to the scripture you responded to, there are those quite content in their own righteousness who look down on others. Then also there are also those who acknowledge their guilt and need for God’s mercy because they see their sins. Which of the two do you think grasp pride and which humility?
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    08 Oct '18 23:14
    @kellyjay said
    Well according to the scripture you responded to, there are those quite content in their own righteousness who look down on others. Then also there are also those who acknowledge their guilt and need for God’s mercy because they see their sins. Which of the two do you think grasp pride and which humility?
    I think there are obvious problems with your Christian notions of humility and self-exaltation - which, lest we forget, are interpersonal dynamics between human beings - for the reasons I have laid out, which you can address if you want [or can].
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    08 Oct '18 23:16
    @kellyjay said
    Which of the two do you think grasp pride and which humility?
    I think your "grasp" of "pride" and "humility" are bogus.
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