Originally posted by Tom Wolsey This one gets me thinking. For the sake of argument, let's say the bible is absolutely correct, at least on the significant things related to doctrine.
God is omniscient, and knows everything that has or will come to pass. This means that in the case of the skeptic that dies in a state of unbelief and unrepentance -- God pre-ordained his or her life ...[text shortened]... have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all." (replace loved with lived)
Thoughts?
This means that in the case of the skeptic that dies in a state of unbelief and unrepentance -- God pre-ordained his or her life from beginning to bitter, tragic end.
Can you state exactly what you mean by "unrepentance"? And by "unbelief"?
There seem more than a few conceptions as to what exactly "true repentance" entails.
While "belief" seems to be more standardized, there seem to be different conceptions of what it means to be a "true believer".
Originally posted by divegeester Are you talking about the "free will vs predestination" debate?
No. I'm accepting the biblical premise that God knows our final destination even before we are born. That doesn't mean He willed it, just that He knows it. And in knowing it, what purpose could He have had in creating someone destined for destruction? I've worded it 3 different ways now. If I can't manage to spark conversation by THIS iteration, I'll just leave it alone and move on. It's not exactly a fun thing for people on either side to talk about. I get that.
Originally posted by Tom Wolsey A snarky way of saying HELLFIRE
Do you mean "HELLFIRE" as a means of carrying out annihilation or "HELLFIRE" as a means of keeping non-believers 'alive' so that they can be tortured for eternity?
Originally posted by FMF Do you mean "HELLFIRE" as a means of carrying out annihilation or "HELLFIRE" as a means of keeping non-believers 'alive' so that they can be tortured for eternity?
Oy vey. 😞 In the context of the question posed in the original message, it doesn't even matter.
How strange and unfamiliar. Suicide now seems like a viable option.
Originally posted by Tom Wolsey No. I'm accepting the biblical premise that God knows our final destination even before we are born. That doesn't mean He willed it, just that He knows it. And in knowing it, what purpose could He have had in creating someone destined for destruction?
This is predestination. You've used the words "destined for destruction". Perhaps you are not clear on what predestination is?
Romans 9:22
"In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction."
Originally posted by Tom Wolsey I guess it's my own fault, but.. it seems I want to live just a little less now.
It's significant though.
[1] Why would a supernatural being create people who [or, at least, some of whom] are simply going to die and be buried?
[2] Why would a supernatural being create people when billions of them are going to be tortured in flames for eternity for not knowing about the supernatural being or not being convinced of its existence?
It's rather odd if you can't see how these two questions about "purpose" are completely different.
Originally posted by Tom Wolsey Oy vey. 😞 In the context of the question posed in the original message, it doesn't even matter.
How strange and unfamiliar. Suicide now seems like a viable option.
Considering you are trying to elicit responses to a specific scenario, your specific scenario setting is pretty non-specific and contains controversial commentary that you now say "doesn't even matter".
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne [b]This means that in the case of the skeptic that dies in a state of unbelief and unrepentance -- God pre-ordained his or her life from beginning to bitter, tragic end.
Can you state exactly what you mean by "unrepentance"? And by "unbelief"?
There seem more than a few conceptions as to what exactly "true repentance" entails.
While "belief" ...[text shortened]... e standardized, there seem to be different conceptions of what it means to be a "true believer".[/b]
I'm talking about the well-known prerequisite states of mind and being, that the bible teaches us will result in damnation. It's coming back to me now. The pleasures of trying to make a simple point with fellow chess players. I will try to be very succinct in future thread creations, so as to leave little room for the discussion to devolve into semantics explanations, defining the context of the word "the," and other mundane, laborious obtusories, ending up 10 pages later never having discussed the simple subject at hand.
Originally posted by Tom Wolsey I'm talking about the well-known prerequisite states of mind and being, that the bible teaches us will result in damnation. It's coming back to me now. The pleasures of trying to make a simple point with fellow chess players. I will try to be very succinct in future thread creations, so as to leave little room for the discussion to devolve into semanti ...[text shortened]... aborious obtusories, ending up 10 pages later never having discussed the simple subject at hand.
🙂 And you can see some ask specific question, get direct answers, and they still go personal
never addressing the point at all for pages if at all.
Originally posted by Tom Wolsey I'm talking about the well-known prerequisite states of mind and being, that the bible teaches us will result in damnation. It's coming back to me now. The pleasures of trying to make a simple point with fellow chess players. I will try to be very succinct in future thread creations, so as to leave little room for the discussion to devolve into semanti ...[text shortened]... aborious obtusories, ending up 10 pages later never having discussed the simple subject at hand.
Your inability to acknowledge the lack of clarity in your OP and this silly effort to fob off your use of controversial terminology such as "carted of to the smoking section", whilst blaming the rest of us for being overly picky is pretty rude.
Furthermore I see in this post your memory is improving again as "it comes back to you"... I notice you have not responded to my question about your alleged Alzheimer's.
The Role of the Unrepentant Skeptic
06 May '17 01:411 edit
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