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    29 Oct '12 10:27
    Some religious people don't vote in political elections.

    I know some who won't due to apparent apathy stemming from a percieved lack of moral fibre within the various parties. I know of others who are not permitted to vote.

    Do you have a view on this, either as an observer or as one of the 2 groups mentioned above?
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Oct '12 10:41
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I know some who won't due to apparent apathy stemming from a percieved lack of moral fibre within the various parties. I know of others who are not permitted to vote.
    Who is not permitted to vote?
  3. Standard memberRJHinds
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    29 Oct '12 11:44
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Some religious people don't vote in political elections.

    I know some who won't due to apparent apathy stemming from a percieved lack of moral fibre within the various parties. I know of others who are not permitted to vote.

    Do you have a view on this, either as an observer or as one of the 2 groups mentioned above?
    I believe anyone that has the legal right to vote should vote because it is the right thing to do.
  4. Joined
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    29 Oct '12 11:441 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Some religious people don't vote in political elections.

    I know some who won't due to apparent apathy stemming from a percieved lack of moral fibre within the various parties. I know of others who are not permitted to vote.

    Do you have a view on this, either as an observer or as one of the 2 groups mentioned above?
    I also know of people in both groups when it comes to voting. JW do not vote (at least those I know), not sure of the reason behind it. Others that I know won't because either a) they don't think there vote matters b) they don't vote because they feel all politians are all crooks.
    I personally do not put too much faith in politians. Politians, I think for the most part they are self serving, I also believe that the end result in politics is corruption, have seen this time and time again. However, I always vote. I feel that casting my vote is a necessary function of the society in which we live, and a few minutes out of our day every year to do this is not too much to ask.
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    29 Oct '12 11:54
    Originally posted by FMF
    Who is not permitted to vote?
    I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses are permitted to vote by their governing body; perhaps robbie and galveston will eleborate.

    I've also heard of some minority religious groups discouraging members from voting.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Oct '12 12:11
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses are permitted to vote by their governing body; perhaps robbie and galveston will elaborate.
    Voting for who you want to represent you - or choosing not to vote - is surely a matter of personal conscience, exercised by free moral agents; it surely cannot be 'not permitted'.
  7. SubscriberProper Knob
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    29 Oct '12 12:20
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses are permitted to vote by their governing body; perhaps robbie and galveston will eleborate.

    I've also heard of some minority religious groups discouraging members from voting.
    From the 'oracle' (Wikipedia) -

    Questions From Readers, The Watchtower, November 1, 1999, p. 28,"As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah's Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State."
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    29 Oct '12 12:25
    Originally posted by FMF
    Voting for who you want to represent you - or choosing not to vote - is surely a matter of personal conscience, exercised by free moral agents; it surely cannot be 'not permitted'.
    I suppose the free moral agent part is exercised when they join/remain part of a group that does not permit it's members to vote.

    My opinion of Politics and Politician's in the UK is so low at the moment, that whilst I find the idea of a group disenfranchising it's own members odd, I don't suppose the individuals involved are to traumatised by the prohibition.
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    29 Oct '12 15:321 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    From the 'oracle' (Wikipedia) -

    Questions From Readers, The Watchtower, November 1, 1999, p. 28,"As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah's Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State."
    I'm not sure what the official JW position is, but here is an example from the below link which gives several WT referrences to political neutrality:

    "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" (1991) pp.139,140
    Jehovah's Witnesses maintain neutrality with regard to the political and military affairs of the nations. (John 17:16; rs pp. 269-76)

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/voting.php

    Perhaps the JW will clarify the position?
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    29 Oct '12 15:55
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    I also know of people in both groups when it comes to voting. JW do not vote (at least those I know), not sure of the reason behind it. Others that I know won't because either a) they don't think there vote matters b) they don't vote because they feel all politians are all crooks.
    I personally do not put too much faith in politians. Politians, I think f ...[text shortened]... which we live, and a few minutes out of our day every year to do this is not too much to ask.
    Hopefully the entire process will take you more than just a few minutes.

    Going into that booth with no clue is not the best way to serve your fellow citizens.

    Just like "driving while intoxicated" is a crime, "voting while stupid" should also be a crime. But millions upon millions of the middle class do it every election.





    Also, it's "politicians".
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    29 Oct '12 16:06
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Hopefully the entire process will take you more than just a few minutes.

    Going into that booth with no clue is not the best way to serve your fellow citizens.

    Just like "driving while intoxicated" is a crime, "voting while stupid" should also be a crime. But millions upon millions of the middle class do it every election.





    Also, it's "politicians".
    Couldn’t you say... one man’s stupidity is another's wisdom? I mean, who is to say how and why one should vote for a candidate, it is after all a choice, is it not? It sounds to me like, voting 'stupid' is voting in away that is unacceptable to another. I think most people who have no clue, don't vote.

    BTW, It's not only the middle class!

    -K
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Oct '12 16:11
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Just like "driving while intoxicated" is a crime, "voting while stupid" should also be a crime. But millions upon millions of the middle class do it every election.
    I realize you're just letting off steam, but - running with it anyway - what happens if the bureaucratic mechanism, set up to criminalize stupid people who attempt vote, designates you as stupid and adds you to the list of "millions upon millions"?
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    29 Oct '12 16:231 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    From the 'oracle' (Wikipedia) -

    Questions From Readers, The Watchtower, November 1, 1999, p. 28,"As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah's Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State."
    Thank you, once again the assertion that we are unable to exercise our consciences
    because of alleged dictates is thoroughly and soundly refuted, I hope the forum will
    remember this. We are politically neutral because Christ was politically neutral.
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    29 Oct '12 16:33
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Couldn’t you say... one man’s stupidity is another's wisdom? I mean, who is to say how and why one should vote for a candidate, it is after all a choice, is it not? It sounds to me like, voting 'stupid' is voting in away that is unacceptable to another. I think most people who have no clue, don't vote.

    BTW, It's not only the middle class!

    -K
    When voting, who here has not come across some harbor district or county equalization board or other agency that you didn't know existed, and lo and behold you are supposed to vote for not more than three of the 7 candidates. All you have to go on is their names and maybe their occupations. Two are listed as "incumbent", one is a "retired accountant" etc.

    I wonder how many basically clueless people will go ahead and vote.

    That's the kind of situation that I think of, when I see Suzianne's comment about voting while stupid.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    29 Oct '12 16:361 edit
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Couldn’t you say... one man’s stupidity is another's wisdom? I mean, who is to say how and why one should vote for a candidate, it is after all a choice, is it not? It sounds to me like, voting 'stupid' is voting in away that is unacceptable to another. I think most people who have no clue, don't vote.

    BTW, It's not only the middle class!

    -K
    The middle class is the only class that votes without an agenda. If they do have an agenda, it is usually some nebulous idea like "wanting to provide better for their families".

    The poor do not vote for conservatives since conservatives favor reducing welfare and other infrastructure that helps them.

    The rich do not vote for liberals since liberals favor higher taxes on the rich.

    The middle class often votes the way the rich tell them to vote, because as I say, they do not have any overwhelming agenda of their own, and the rich can get their message out far easier than the poor can.

    And there are plenty (too many) who vote without a clue. They vote out of some feeling of "duty to country", though often unsure what that means. The middle class often votes for the name they hear most on TV. They feel they "should" vote, but once they get in there, they don't even recognize half the names, so they punch in for those they know, or have at least heard of. They far too often do not vote for the guy who will represent their needs better, because they often fail to research the issues mainly because "I have better things to do during my busy day", like taking care of their families or putting food on the table or managing to pay their outrageous mortgage. It's far easier for them to think "I'll just vote for Candidate A because Rush says he'll do a better job".

    At least both the rich and the poor have an actual reason for voting the way they do.
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