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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    06 Jan '19 00:401 edit
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/american-exceptionalism-is-a-dangerous-myth.html

    "American Exceptionalism Is a Dangerous Myth"

    "Donald Trump has done more to elevate the left’s critique of U.S. foreign policy
    than any politician in modern memory."

    "...many liberal intellectuals are eager to revive the national myths that Trump has busted"
    "they nevertheless insist that America’s self-conception as an exceptional power — which
    is to say, as a hegemon whose foreign policy is shaped by universal ideals (as
    opposed to mercenary interests) — isn’t just a beneficent fiction, but an actual fact."

    "Trump’s great gift to the American people is that he has made our government’s
    ugliest features easier to see — and thus, to change. But if we respond by burying
    Uncle Sam’s deformities beneath the concealer of American exceptionalism, the
    change we make won’t even be skin deep."
  2. Behind the scenes
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    06 Jan '19 12:42
    @duchess64 said
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/american-exceptionalism-is-a-dangerous-myth.html

    "American Exceptionalism Is a Dangerous Myth"

    "Donald Trump has done more to elevate the left’s critique of U.S. foreign policy
    than any politician in modern memory."

    "...many liberal intellectuals are eager to revive the national myths that Trump has busted"
    "they nevertheles ...[text shortened]... ies beneath the concealer of American exceptionalism, the
    change we make won’t even be skin deep."
    "Trump’s great gift to the American people is that he has made our government’s
    ugliest features easier to see -




    I'm sure this is true, but correcting those ugly features, and doing it within the framework of America's political and legal system is anything but easy.
  3. Germany
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    06 Jan '19 14:02
    @mchill said
    "Trump’s great gift to the American people is that he has made our government’s
    ugliest features easier to see -




    I'm sure this is true, but correcting those ugly features, and doing it within the framework of America's political and legal system is anything but easy.
    It's very easy - convincing Americans that it's necessary is the difficult part.
  4. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
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    06 Jan '19 14:21
    @kazetnagorra said
    It's very easy - convincing Americans that it's necessary is the difficult part.
    Please remember: America is a diverse nation.

    Unfortunately, 30% of our population is behaving like a domesticated pet. Eagerly rolling-over for a Trumpian tummy scratch and obediently fetching and barking on command.

    But a good bath is coming. Because the biting fleas of truth are beginning to itch.
  5. Joined
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    06 Jan '19 14:24
    @duchess64 said
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/american-exceptionalism-is-a-dangerous-myth.html

    "American Exceptionalism Is a Dangerous Myth"

    "Donald Trump has done more to elevate the left’s critique of U.S. foreign policy
    than any politician in modern memory."

    "...many liberal intellectuals are eager to revive the national myths that Trump has busted"
    "they nevertheles ...[text shortened]... ies beneath the concealer of American exceptionalism, the
    change we make won’t even be skin deep."
    Isn't that an extension of "Manifest Destiny"? Why stop at a continent when you can apply it to the world? Imperialists have been calling people backwards to justify colonialism of those territories for a long time. Teddy Roosevelt said that about the Philippines.
    It is all about the belief you are improving the people you are conquering. The American news media still uses that reasoning in their propaganda. Remember how the corporate news media pointed out how women had few human rights in Afghanistan? We invaded, occupied and women still have few rights there.
    Bring them freedom by bombing them. It would seem like a hard sell, but propagandists get people to accept it. It is all based on the human nature of exceptionalism. All people think they are exceptional. It is a flaw in human nature. Propaganda exploits that flaw.
  6. Standard membershavixmir
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    06 Jan '19 17:25
    I’ve never heard of American exceptionalism.

    US imperialism, yes.
    US moronity, yes.
    US crimes against humanity, yes.
    US aggression, yes.

    Exceptional? Nope.
  7. Germany
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    06 Jan '19 17:30
    @wolfe63 said
    Please remember: America is a diverse nation.

    Unfortunately, 30% of our population is behaving like a domesticated pet. Eagerly rolling-over for a Trumpian tummy scratch and obediently fetching and barking on command.

    But a good bath is coming. Because the biting fleas of truth are beginning to itch.
    America is "diverse," but opposition to the kind of reforms necessary to fix what's broken is widespread.
  8. Joined
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    06 Jan '19 19:59
    @kazetnagorra said
    America is "diverse," but opposition to the kind of reforms necessary to fix what's broken is widespread.
    A certain amount of resistance to change is built into the operating systems of states. It gives continuity to the institutions and leadership of the state, for good or for bad. One institution that was built into the US from its start was slavery. Slavery amounted to organized theft and monetization of the labor value of the enslaved as a source of wealth. The labor value was converted to crops farmed on land that was “free for the taking” and the crops were converted to wealth for the plantation owner class.

    The slavery based plantation economy of farmable areas of the US came to be economically untenable and uncompetitive and militarily weak in a world undergoing an industrial revolution including the industrialization of warfare. It took a civil war, 600,000 lives, and enforcement of wholesale changes in the constitution and statute law to defeat the resistance to change, and it’s not done yet. MAGA is the latest manifestation of this residual resistance to change. I see no peaceful way for this resistance to end. Too many aspects of our society echo and seek to maintain the values of our past.
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    06 Jan '19 21:591 edit
    Is Chinese exceptionalism a dangerous myth too?

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-challenge-to-u-s-power-chinese-exceptionalism-1500993643

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1354066111421038

    Prediction - Duchess will refuse to answer the question directly but will get upset and lash out against the USA even more.
  10. Joined
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    06 Jan '19 22:24
    The USA is doomed.
    Hopefully that doesn't affect neighboring countries but it most likely will.
    Hopefully Putinasia will accept foreigners who would be loyal.

    People do over rate themselves, especially Americans.
  11. Zugzwang
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    06 Jan '19 23:031 edit
    @athousandyoung said
    Is Chinese exceptionalism a dangerous myth too?

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-challenge-to-u-s-power-chinese-exceptionalism-1500993643

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1354066111421038

    Prediction - Duchess will refuse to answer the question directly but will get upset and lash out against the USA even more.
    The troll AThousandYoung has a long record of extreme anti-Asian, particularly anti-Chinese, racism.
    AThousandYoung once claimed that Asian American students get exceptional test
    scores only because they are exceptionally prolific and successful at cheating.

    In fact, *American exceptionalism* is a long established concept in academic
    discourse, going back at least to Alexis de Tocqueville in the early 19th century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

    "American exceptionalism is an ideology holding the United States as unique among
    nations in positive or negative connotations, with respect to its ideas of democracy
    and personal freedom."

    In contrast, 'Chinese exceptionalism' (no Wikipedia article exists for it) apparently
    exists more as a strawman of Sinophobic propaganda (which AThousandYoung adores)
    than as any established academic concept.

    A professor of political science can much more easily obtain a research grant to
    study American exceptionalism than alleged 'Chinese exceptionalism'.

    For further reading:
    _American Exceptionalism: A Double-Edged Sword_ by Seymour Martin Lipset
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    06 Jan '19 23:08
    Thai exceptionalism has a wiki page. What does that have to do with anything? The Chinese probably keep deleting the wiki on Chinese Exceptionalism because they are paranoid about their reputation.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    06 Jan '19 23:103 edits
    We all know Duchess’ bias is extremely pro-China so IDK why she makes these ad hominem comments. She’s at least as biased as anyone here.

    Understanding Chinese Exceptionalism: China's Rise, Its Goodness, and Greatness

    Benjamin Ho
    Alternatives: Global, Local, Political
    Vol. 39, No. 3 (August 2014), pp. 164-176
    Published by: Sage Publications, Inc.
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/24569474

    As a branch of Chinese political thought, Chinese exceptionalism has recently been the subject of renewed scholarly analysis.


    The rise of Chinese exceptionalism in international relations
    Feng Zhang
    First Published October 27, 2011 Research Article
    https://doi.org/10.1177/1354066111421038

    Although exceptionalism is an important dimension of China’s foreign policy, it has not been a subject of serious scholarly research...

    While resting on an important factual basis, China’s exceptionalism is constructed by mixing facts with myths through selective use of the country’s vast historical and cultural experiences.
  14. Zugzwang
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    06 Jan '19 23:18
    @athousandyoung said
    Understanding Chinese Exceptionalism: China's Rise, Its Goodness, and Greatness

    Benjamin Ho
    Alternatives: Global, Local, Political
    Vol. 39, No. 3 (August 2014), pp. 164-176
    Published by: Sage Publications, Inc.
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/24569474

    As a branch of Chinese political thought, Chinese exceptionalism has recently been the subject of renewed scholarly analysis.
    It's tautological to claim that every civilization is unique, hence 'exceptional'.
    China has a (more or less continuous) civilization of exceptional longevity and influence.
    There are academic studies about why Chinese civilization excelled (or was exceptional)
    when European societies were mired in backwardness.

    AThousandYoung apparently confuses or conflates two concepts of 'exceptionalism'.
    'Chinese exceptionalism' pertains more to its history of civilization whereas
    'American exceptionalism' pertains, in a modern political sense, more to the belief
    that the USA's uniquely virtuous and entitled to act as though it's above the laws
    and treaties that regulate the behavior of other nations.
  15. Zugzwang
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    06 Jan '19 23:20
    @athousandyoung said
    Thai exceptionalism has a wiki page. What does that have to do with anything? The Chinese probably keep deleting the wiki on Chinese Exceptionalism because they are paranoid about their reputation.
    Can the anti-Asian racist troll AThousandYoung cite any evidence to support his
    allegation that Chinese readers routinely delete any Wikpedia article on 'Chinese exceptionalism'?
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