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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    04 Jun '09 06:29
    The third wealthiest man in the world is Mexican. The other two are Americans. He is a monopolist of telecommunications in Mexico.

    What do you all think of him? I especially want to hear from Seitse.
  2. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    04 Jun '09 06:46
    He became really wealthy when Carlos Salinas, the 1988 president elected through fraud (the voting system "fell" when he was behind, and he was ahead when the swtich was turned on), privatized in his favor.

    Nowadays, Mexicans pay lots of cash for horrible telecom service since competition is blocked by Mr. Slim. Let's not forget that Telmex owns the Mexican wire system, and competitors must rent to him or search for other technology. Axtel tried this, with the microwave towers, but they still need the wire to complete city-to-city calls.

    On the side, if you read his bio and check what important businessmen and other characters tell of him as a person, it is undeniable that Slim is an astute man who knows how to think strategically. Moreover, when you check his family background and his beginings, his management values are a good example of the flourishing Lebanese community in Mexico, which is loved for their hard working spirit.

    Still, it is worth to ponder, when seeing the big picture: how is it possible that 50 million humans living in misery can coexist together with Sliam and another handful of Forbes list families?

    Makes you wonder.
  3. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    04 Jun '09 06:48
    BTW, do you read Spanish easily?

    If so, I can recommend to you a couple of very interesting books about the Mexican political and economic transition (including the role played by Carlos Slim) from 1982 to 1994.
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    04 Jun '09 07:20
    Originally posted by Seitse
    BTW, do you read Spanish easily?

    If so, I can recommend to you a couple of very interesting books about the Mexican political and economic transition (including the role played by Carlos Slim) from 1982 to 1994.
    Not easily, no. I'm almost fluent but not quite. I still struggle with it. I'd be willing to look at internet sites in Spanish but I don't want to go out and find a book.
  5. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    04 Jun '09 07:27
    I'll PM you a good link as a starter, in English... parts of it:


    The Mexican-born son of a prosperous Lebanese Christian merchant originally named Yusef Salim Haddam, Slim made his big move in 1990 during President Carlos Salinas' corrupt privatization binge (which was enthusiastically endorsed by the elder President Bush). He bought the government's telephone monopoly. Interestingly, Slim's telephone monopoly was written into NAFTA, negotiated during Bush I, granting Slim a decade without foreign competition.



    Andres Oppenheimer, a Pulitzer Prize winner of the Miami Herald, reported in his entertaining book on the Salinas debauch, Bordering on Chaos:

    "Salinas offered their buyers sweet regulatory deals… he offered them … a series of behind-the-scenes government favors that would guarantee the profitability of the new owners' investments."

    Oppenheimer goes on:

    "Salinas authorized spectacular tariff increases without demanding corresponding improvements in the telephone service. In 1991, Telmex was allowed to increase telephone rates by 247.4 percent, while wages that year were allowed to rise by 18 percent."

    Of course, such a deal came with a price tag. On February 23, 1993, President Salinas invited Slim and the other 29 richest men in Mexico to dinner, where he shook them down for campaign contributions to the ruling PRI party of 25 million American dollars each—$750 million!

  6. 05 Jun '09 07:07
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    The third wealthiest man in the world is Mexican. The other two are Americans. He is a monopolist of telecommunications in Mexico.

    What do you all think of him? I especially want to hear from Seitse.
    Carlos Slim Helu is a shrewd cut-throat business man who takes no prisoners but does add value as well when he takes over many unsucessful companies and makes them valuable. That is where much of his early fortune comes from. He gathered a group of rich Mexicans to buy Telmex from the government. Government run enterprises suck, they provided less phones than today's pemex and lost the government ridiculous amounts of money.

    His cut-throat side includes that he'll make a kiling on keeping competition away through bribes and dirty monopolistic practices. He will support a dirty populist like AMLO (because AMLO was mayor of his home city and he elected his own successor in true pri-ista dinosaur style, which is the party that trained amlo how to be a dirty politician), so he will cut deals when it suits him.

    Calderon is rightfully pushing for greater competition in the telecommunications market. That will take a lot cause SLIM has a lot of money and interests on his side.
  7. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    05 Jun '09 07:30 / 2 edits
    Yes, Calderon is god.

    The Mexican government is honest and Mexico is a paradise on earth.

    Go there, you'll be safe ©

    This ad has been paid by... er... Mr. Calderon, with the support
    of the copy-pasters of the government webpage and the white
    elite ruling Mexico at the cost of 50 million people living in misery.
    Co-sponsoring by the Juarez drug cartel and the Catholic churc,
    proud supporters of the ruling party.

    All copyrights reserved. Mexamerica, 2009
  8. 06 Jun '09 18:25
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Yes, Calderon is god.

    The Mexican government is honest and Mexico is a paradise on earth.

    [b]Go there, you'll be safe ©


    This ad has been paid by... er... Mr. Calderon, with the support
    of the copy-pasters of the government webpage and the white
    elite ruling Mexico at the cost of 50 million people living in misery.
    Co-sponsoring by the Juar ...[text shortened]... churc,
    proud supporters of the ruling party.

    All copyrights reserved. Mexamerica, 2009
    [/b]
    I challenge you (AGAIN) to show me what was copy-pasted, although I expect that you will avoid and ignore this direct challenge because it call out your lies (again).
  9. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    06 Jun '09 19:24
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    I challenge you (AGAIN) to show me what was copy-pasted, although I expect that you will avoid and ignore this direct challenge because it call out your lies (again).
    I challenge you to prove that all the things you say can be found here:

    http://www.pan.org.mx/

    http://www.presidencia.gob.mx/

    WARNING: For those reading this, be warned that the websites are the official website of the ilegitimate, inept and corrupt presidency of Mexico, and the other one the ultra right wing, ultra catholic ruling party.
  10. 06 Jun '09 19:30
    Originally posted by Seitse
    I challenge you to prove that all the things you say can be found here:

    http://www.pan.org.mx/

    http://www.presidencia.gob.mx/

    WARNING: For those reading this, be warned that the websites are the official website of the ilegitimate, inept and corrupt presidency of Mexico, and the other one the ultra right wing, ultra catholic ruling party.
    You are the one making the false accusations which you cannot back up. POINT US TO THE ALLEGED COPY/PASTE.

    SHOW THE PROOF, LIAR.

    Warning to all those who have not seen Seitse lie and fail to back up his attacks with proof, that is just Seitse being Seitse.
  11. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    07 Jun '09 08:52
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    You are the one making the false accusations which you cannot back up. POINT US TO THE ALLEGED COPY/PASTE.

    SHOW THE PROOF, LIAR.

    Warning to all those who have not seen Seitse lie and fail to back up his attacks with proof, that is just Seitse being Seitse.
    Hi!
  12. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    07 Jun '09 08:57
    Here's another webpage el gran muppet jesús gets his copy pastings from:

    http://www.cem.org.mx/

    It say there that the Vatican gives its blessings to the ilegitimate presidence of Mexico, to the drug dealers (as long as they donate to the church), and it explains why the poor people in Mexico should not complain because they're going to heaven.

    Gah!
  13. 07 Jun '09 10:32
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Here's another webpage el gran muppet jesús gets his copy pastings from:

    http://www.cem.org.mx/

    It say there that the Vatican gives its blessings to the ilegitimate presidence of Mexico, to the drug dealers (as long as they donate to the church), and it explains why the poor people in Mexico should not complain because they're going to heaven.

    Gah!
    (shakes head at seitse's stupidities)

    Are you a child that never grew up?

    No back-up, just attacks.

    Nothing he can prove, just unsubstantiated allegations.

    I suppose I should leave you to argue with students rather than with adults.

    Otherwise the conversation will continue to sound like:


    -Here are the facts that disprove what you argue Seitse, what do you say to my logic and arguments?

    -eljefejesus, you are this name, and you're that name. I will accuse you of copy pasting, don't ask me for the prove though, because I will just ignore your request.

    -Seitse, what you just said is illogical, stick to the argument and show some support for what you say.

    -Here is a website. I am going to accuse you of copy pasting from somewhere in the site, but don't ask me where or ask me to paste that section here, because I just made it up and I don't want to look stupid. Oh, here is another website. Let me reinterpret what their position is, because that is so convincing. These catholics say these bad things.


    and so on, and so on...
  14. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    07 Jun '09 10:40 / 2 edits
    We're still waiting for you to provide an original thought, son.

    Please demonstrate you can say something different than the official story from the Mexican government.

    ---

    Edit. Here's a delicious piece of that paradise of peace and propserity led by an honest government...

    http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war
  15. 08 Jun '09 03:21
    Originally posted by Seitse
    We're still waiting for you to provide an original thought, son.

    Please demonstrate you can say something different than the official story from the Mexican government.

    ---

    Edit. Here's a delicious piece of that paradise of peace and propserity led by an honest government...

    [b]http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war
    [/b]
    Let's challenge your understanding of a failed state.
    How would you define a failed state?
    Which Countries in the Western hemisphere would you consider failed states?

    Same for near-failed states, define and give examples please.