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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    13 Feb '18 04:13
    We hear people every day praise the virtue of democracy. We hear it from our leaders, we hear it from the press, we even hear it from our educators. One would almost assume that democracy is akin to some life saving righteous force that will eventually purge any government of corruption and injustice. It's almost as if democracy were some sort of god like power, in which rests all of our hopes and dreams.

    However, what most people may not know, or refuse to consider, is that the history of democracy is far from desirable. The people of Athens are often credited with being the first recorded democracy. However, do we ever consider the historical success of that ancient democracy?

    Looking closer into Athenian life, only the citizens of Athens who were male could vote. This excluded the vast majority of Athenians, which included children, women, and slaves. In fact, there were far more slaves than citizens. In a rather odd way though, slavery was the key to any success democracy might have had in Athens. For you see, the men of Athens who were allowed to participate in democracy spent their days debating and studying topics, so that they were well informed and educated about the issues. This was only made possible because they had slaves to attend to the time consuming chores of every day life. We all know that an uniformed vote is a wasted vote. The irony here is that even the well informed men of Athens paved a path to hell as they devolved into a self righteous and arrogant society that squandered their riches and freedom on wars abroad with such powers as Sparta in order to spread their virtuous form of government. The gospel of democracy led them to ruin. Sound familiar?

    So as we see, democracy does not automatically lead to virtue. In fact, the Founding Fathers seemed to think that democracy before virtue was placing the cart before the horse. Many of the Founders, such as Ben Franklin, seemed to think that only a virtuous people could succeed in a free and democratic society. Ben Franklin famously mentioned that he thought that the Constitution would succeed for a number of years until the morality of society waned to the point it be rendered useless and cast aside for a tyranny of some kind. HIs view was that society would eventually become so corrupt, that a tyranny would be needed to restrain it.

    Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the Founding Fathers set up a Republic instead of a democracy. As John Adams once said, "Democracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man’s life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable cruelty of one or a very few" Why then does everyone continue to refer to the US as a democracy with the added implication that this has lead to the greatness of the nation? This is a total fabrication.

    Does this description of John Adams not sound like society within the US today? Looking at our leaders who seem to routinely break the law with impunity, the US has become a nation of men and not laws. The nation no longer seeks after wisdom and virtue, but after power, wealth, beauty, and knowledge and science. It's almost as if knowledge is equal to wisdom and virtue, if not even better than the two combined. However, a mind full of knowledge that embraces evil is the worst nightmare society could hope for. Knowledge is merely a tool, or weapon depending on the morality of the individual in which it resides.

    So the next time you hear democracy being used to describe the United States, or being used to describe the ideal form of government, ask yourself why. What are they trying to sell because the gospel of democracy is a lie.
  2. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    13 Feb '18 04:20
    Originally posted by @whodey
    We hear people every day praise the virtue of democracy. We hear it from our leaders, we hear it from the press, we even hear it from our educators. One would almost assume that democracy is akin to some life saving righteous force that will eventually purge any government of corruption and injustice. It's almost as if democracy were some sort of god like po ...[text shortened]... rnment, ask yourself why. What are they trying to sell because the gospel of democracy is a lie.
    Credit the source:

    http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/democracy-the-big-lie.659254/#post-19262785
  3. Standard membershavixmironline
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    13 Feb '18 05:13
    Another whole load of bollocks.

    The US is a democratic republic.
    As in: it’s a democracy without a royal family.
    I’ve also heard it described as a constitutional democracy...

    A republic is just a country without a monarch.
    A democracy is just a country where the people vote for their representatives.

    England is a constitutional monarchy (also a democracy; albeit with a ceremonial monarch: no president).

    Germany is a parliamentary republic (no monarch, the executive is accountable to the chosen chamber).

    As for Athens... yeah. I’m sure it was a singular issue that led to their downfall...

    That, by the way, is sarcasm.

    The Delian league being used for imperialistic use rather than to form a network of armies to defeat the Persians...

    Spartan, Macedonian and Roman invasions...

    And just because something failed 2400 years ago, doesn’t it’s going to fail now.
    You know... different axiomas, etc.

    But.
    Basically.
    Your article (which is some moron’s post in some other thread, seemingly) is complete bollocks.
  4. Joined
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    13 Feb '18 13:02
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Another whole load of bollocks.

    The US is a democratic republic.
    As in: it’s a democracy without a royal family.
    I’ve also heard it described as a constitutional democracy...

    A republic is just a country without a monarch.
    A democracy is just a country where the people vote for their representatives.

    England is a constitutional monarchy (also ...[text shortened]...
    Your article (which is some moron’s post in some other thread, seemingly) is complete bollocks.
    "A democracy is just a country where the people vote for their representatives."

    This statement is laughably ignorant.
  5. Standard membershavixmironline
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    13 Feb '18 13:17
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    "A democracy is just a country where the people vote for their representatives."

    This statement is laughably ignorant.
    Definition of democracy:

    Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία dēmokratía, literally "rule of the people"😉, in modern usage, is a system of government in which the citizens exercise power directly or elect representatives from among themselves to form a governing body, such as a parliament.

    And so I presume you’re now going to explain why my statement is laughably ignorant....

    Go on...
  6. Joined
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    13 Feb '18 13:24
    Originally posted by @whodey
    The nation no longer seeks after wisdom and virtue, but after power, wealth, beauty, and knowledge and science.
    TL, DR:

    "Things were so much better yesteryear."

    Not true of course, but dummy likes to think so anyway.

    Shouldn't you be mentioning God somewhere, Whodey?
  7. Standard membershavixmironline
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    13 Feb '18 13:30
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    TL, DR:

    "Things were so much better yesteryear."

    Not true of course, but dummy likes to think so anyway.

    Shouldn't you be mentioning God somewhere, Whodey?
    Sweet Jesus, does he have to?
  8. Joined
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    13 Feb '18 14:10
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Definition of democracy:

    Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία dēmokratía, literally "rule of the people"😉, in modern usage, is a system of government in which the citizens exercise power directly or elect representatives from among themselves to form a governing body, such as a parliament.

    And so I presume you’re now going to explain why my statement is laughably ignorant....

    Go on...
    By your premise HRC would be president right now.
    We are governed by a >constitution<

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/c/constitutional-republic/
  9. Standard membershavixmironline
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    13 Feb '18 14:29
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    By your premise HRC would be president right now.
    We are governed by a >constitution<

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/c/constitutional-republic/
    Well Mottballs, I did refer to that in my original answer...
    But you seen to not care about what people actually write.
  10. Joined
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    13 Feb '18 14:36
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Well Mottballs, I did refer to that in my original answer...
    But you seen to not care about what people actually write.
    Ummmm, no you didn't...

    "The US is a democratic republic.
    As in: it’s a democracy without a royal family.
    I’ve also heard it described as a constitutional democracy... "
  11. Standard membershavixmironline
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    13 Feb '18 14:38
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    [b]Ummmm, no you didn't...

    "The US is a democratic republic.
    As in: it’s a democracy without a royal family.
    I’ve also heard it described as a constitutional democracy... "[/b]
    That’a right.
    Correct.
    There you go, my lad, see! Not even you are wrong all the time.

    Oh. Wait. A constitutional republic, you say?

    Ah. So, you quote me correctly and still you are wrong.
  12. Joined
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    13 Feb '18 14:42
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    That’a right.
    Correct.
    There you go, my lad, see! Not even you are wrong all the time.

    Oh. Wait. A constitutional republic, you say?

    Ah. So, you quote me correctly and still you are wrong.
    like a chicken on a hot plate...keep going...lol
  13. Standard membershavixmironline
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    13 Feb '18 14:48
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    like a chicken on a hot plate...keep going...lol
    You do realize you are wrong, don’t you?

    The US is a republic (it doesn’t have a monarch).
    It’s a democracy (officials are elected).
    It has a constitution to limit the powers of government.

    They don’t bite each other.
    Saying the isn’t a democracy is completely wrong.
  14. Joined
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    13 Feb '18 14:561 edit
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    You do realize you are wrong, don’t you?

    The US is a republic (it doesn’t have a monarch).
    It’s a democracy (officials are elected).
    It has a constitution to limit the powers of government.

    They don’t bite each other.
    Saying the isn’t a democracy is completely wrong.
    It has elements of democracy but it is a Republic, not a democracy

    Do you favor direct democracy instead of a Republic?
  15. Joined
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    13 Feb '18 15:00
    Originally posted by @whodey
    It has elements of democracy but it is a Republic, not a democracy

    Do you favor direct democracy instead of a Republic?
    Oh come on, stop spreading that Randian nonsense.
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