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Debates Forum

  1. 24 Aug '10 22:21
    "We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims," -Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

    Any comments on this "moderate" muslims quote on the Nation he is an ambassador for?
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    24 Aug '10 22:28
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    "We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims," [b]-Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

    Any comments on this "moderate" muslims quote on the Nation he is an ambassador for?[/b]
    What exactly is your problem with the statement; it's obviously true. Do moderate Muslims have to lie or they become terrorists?
  3. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    24 Aug '10 22:31
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    "We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims," [b]-Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

    Any comments on this "moderate" muslims quote on the Nation he is an ambassador for?[/b]
    What's the issue here? Did he say something factually incorrect?
  4. 24 Aug '10 22:32
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    What exactly is your problem with the statement; it's obviously true. Do moderate Muslims have to lie or they become terrorists?
    He is Muslim and criticized America therefore he is an extremist.
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    24 Aug '10 22:36
    Here's two other Rauf quotes:

    "The truth is that killing innocent people is always wrong -- and no argument or excuse, no matter how deeply believed, can ever make it right. Islamic law is clearly against terrorism, against any kind of deliberate killing of civilians or similar 'collateral damage',


    "I see the Declaration of Independence as more compliant with the principles of Islam than what is available in many of the current Muslim countries,"

    http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/aug/24/us-has-more-blood-on-its-hands-than-al-qaeda.htm
  6. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    24 Aug '10 22:39
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Here's two other Rauf quotes:

    "The truth is that killing innocent people is always wrong -- and no argument or excuse, no matter how deeply believed, can ever make it right. Islamic law is clearly against terrorism, against any kind of deliberate killing of civilians or similar 'collateral damage',


    "I see the Decla ...[text shortened]... http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/aug/24/us-has-more-blood-on-its-hands-than-al-qaeda.htm
    You mean he espouses some of the best in American values, but also dares speak truth to power, to remind American citizens, not only what is great about your country, but also to remind them that not all that is done in their name should necessarily have their support, to make them questions the actions of their government as responsible, free citizens?

    Monster.
  7. 25 Aug '10 00:16
    "You may remember that the U.S.-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations," -Imam Fiesal Abdul Rauf
  8. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    25 Aug '10 00:19
    Are you going to say something, or just keep churning out quotes? What about the two No1M gave you? And, again, is he mistaken? Exaggerating?

    Where's the debate?
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    25 Aug '10 00:23
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    "You may remember that the U.S.-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations," -[b]Imam Fiesal Abdul Rauf[/b]
    The U.S. Secretary Of State confirmed this.
  10. 25 Aug '10 00:24
    Originally posted by DrKF
    Are you going to say something, or just keep churning out quotes? What about the two No1M gave you? And, again, is he mistaken? Exaggerating?

    Where's the debate?
    Respond to this?

    "What exactly is your problem with the statement; it's obviously true. Do moderate Muslims have to lie or they become terrorists?"no1moron

    Did I say I had a problem one way or the other? I was asking for input on the quote as I am this one.
  11. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    25 Aug '10 00:25
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Respond to this?

    "What exactly is your problem with the statement; it's obviously true. Do moderate Muslims have to lie or they become terrorists?"no1moron

    Did I say I had a problem one way or the other? I was asking for input on the quote as I am this one.
    Oh, you're just trolling. My bad, I'll leave you to it.
  12. 25 Aug '10 00:27
    Originally posted by FMF
    The U.S. Secretary Of State confirmed this.
    According to this article,

    "Diplomats and others, including former President Bill Clinton, have said that sentiment is wrong. Saddam Hussein's regime corrupted then-U.N. sanctions and denied humanitarian aid to his own people.

    In a Nov. 8, 2000, interview on Pacifica Radio, Clinton said if any child is without food or medicine, then Saddam is to blame because the dictator is "lying to the world and claiming the mean, old United States is killing his children."

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/24/ground-zero-mosque-imam-america-killed-innocents-al-qaeda/
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    25 Aug '10 00:35
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    "You may remember that the U.S.-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations," -[b]Imam Fiesal Abdul Rauf[/b]
    Again a true statement:

    A senior U.N. official said Friday about half a million children under the age of 5 have died in Iraq since the imposition of U.N. sanctions 10 years ago.
    Anupama Rao Singh, country director for the U.N. Children's Fund (UNICEF), made the estimate in an interview with Reuters.

    ``In absolute terms we estimate that perhaps about half a million children under 5 years of age have died, who ordinarily would not have died had the decline in mortality that was prevalent over the 70s and the 80s continued through the 90s,'' she said.

    A UNICEF survey published in August showed the mortality rate among Iraqi children under 5 had more than doubled in the government-controlled south and center of Iraq during the sanctions.

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/072100-03.htm
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    25 Aug '10 00:36
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    According to this article,

    "Diplomats and others, including former President Bill Clinton, have said that sentiment is wrong. Saddam Hussein's regime corrupted then-U.N. sanctions and denied humanitarian aid to his own people.

    In a Nov. 8, 2000, interview on Pacifica Radio, Clinton said if any child is without food or medicine, then Saddam is t ...[text shortened]... w.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/24/ground-zero-mosque-imam-america-killed-innocents-al-qaeda/
    Yes well, Clinton's comments in 2000 - damage limitation for his own government's inadvertent admission - don't cut it, clearly.
  15. 25 Aug '10 01:56
    Originally posted by FMF
    Yes well, Clinton's comments in 2000 - damage limitation for his own government's inadvertent admission - don't cut it, clearly.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_for_food

    The Oil-for-Food Programme, established by the United Nations in 1995 (under UN Security Council Resolution 986)[1] and terminated in late 2003, was established with the stated intent to allow Iraq to sell oil on the world market in exchange for food, medicine, and other humanitarian needs for ordinary Iraqi citizens without allowing Iraq to boost its military capabilities.

    The programme was introduced by United States President Bill Clinton's administration in 1995, as a response to arguments that ordinary Iraqi citizens were inordinately affected by the international economic sanctions aimed at the demilitarisation of Saddam Hussein's Iraq, imposed in the wake of the first Gulf War. The sanctions were discontinued on November 21, 2003 after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and the humanitarian functions turned over to the Coalition Provisional Authority.[2]

    As the programme ended, there were revelations of corruption involving the funds.

    Contents

    * 1 Background and design
    * 2 Financial statistics
    * 3 Initial support and criticism
    * 4 End of the programme
    * 5 Abuse
    o 5.1 al Mada list
    o 5.2 Operation of the scheme
    o 5.3 BNP
    o 5.4 Duelfer investigation
    o 5.5 Oil coupons as bribes
    o 5.6 Complaints by Kurds
    o 5.7 Potential Annan link
    o 5.8 Alleged involvement of Russian intelligence
    o 5.9 Allegedly used to finance Al-Qaeda
    o 5.10 Allegations against George Galloway
    o 5.11 Oil for wheat
    * 6 Investigations
    o 6.1 GAO investigation
    o 6.2 Independent Inquiry Committee
    + 6.2.1 Interim report results
    o 6.3 Investigations by Iraqi Governing Council
    o 6.4 Beneficiaries
    + 6.4.1 Russia
    + 6.4.2 Other
    o 6.5 Criminal investigation in France
    o 6.6 US Senate investigations
    o 6.7 Indictments
    o 6.8 Recent Lawsuit
    o 6.9 Daimler AG Kickbacks Case