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  1. 02 Aug '14 12:22
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/08/01/Islamic-State-to-Join-Palestine-to-Fight-the-Barbaric-Jews

    ISIS has sworn their help in fighting the Jews in Israel, but said they must first complete the genocide in the Arab countries.
  2. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Aug '14 12:59
    Not news. Don't hold your breath.
  3. 02 Aug '14 13:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Not news. Don't hold your breath.
    Are you not exited? The Jewish question may finally be answered thanks to Obama's ISIS.
  4. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Aug '14 13:29
    Originally posted by whodey
    Are you not exited? The Jewish question may finally be answered thanks to Obama's ISIS.
    No I have not exited. But it is time I did.
  5. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Aug '14 16:35 / 3 edits
    Here's a question.

    ISIS have nothing to do with the Palestinians, to be clear.

    ISIS want a Sunni Muslim Caliphate, at the expense of Shia Muslims, and driving out non Muslims, notably Christians, who have lived in the region for not centuries but millennia.

    Some 5 million Palestinian refugees have been excluded from Israel, a Jewish state, which American and European converts to Judaism can enter under the Right to Return legislation to join aggressive, illegal settlements at the further expense of Palestinians in the West Bank and Jerusalem. The process of punishing Palestinians for not being Jews is ongoing.

    Now explain the difference in principle between both policies, where religious criteria are proposed as the basis for a violently discriminatory political settlement. If one is wrong and one is right, then on what criteria and is that something recognised in international law?
  6. 02 Aug '14 17:13
    Originally posted by finnegan

    ISIS want a Sunni Muslim Caliphate, at the expense of Shia Muslims, and driving out non Muslims, notably Christians, who have lived in the region for not centuries but millennia.
    Why haven't they shared their life elixir with the rest of the world?
  7. 02 Aug '14 18:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Finnegan to Whodey
    Here's a question.

    ISIS have nothing to do with the Palestinians, to be clear.

    ISIS want a Sunni Muslim Caliphate, at the expense of Shia Muslims, and driving out non Muslims, notably Christians, who have lived in the region for not centuries but millennia.

    Some 5 million Palestinian refugees have been excluded from Israel, a Jewish s ...[text shortened]... g and one is right, then on what criteria and is that something recognised in international law?
    'ISIS have nothing to do with the Palestinians, to be clear."
    --Finnegan

    Another common tactic of supporters of Israel is to blame the Palestinians
    for anything apparently bad done by *any non-Palestinian* Arab regime or group,
    which seems based upon a racist 'all Arabs must be exactly alike' stereotype.
    Indeed, I have even heard some people blame the Palestinians for the actions
    or policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Iranians are *not* Arabs, but
    many Westerners seem ignorant of that fact.
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Aug '14 18:12
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Why haven't they shared their life elixir with the rest of the world?
    Is there a point to that odd question? What is this life elixir to which you refer? Are you referring to the Zionists or to ISIS and do you imagine that I support either to the degree that would wish to defend either?
  9. 02 Aug '14 18:41
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Here's a question.

    ISIS have nothing to do with the Palestinians, to be clear.

    ISIS want a Sunni Muslim Caliphate, at the expense of Shia Muslims, and driving out non Muslims, notably Christians, who have lived in the region for not centuries but millennia.

    Some 5 million Palestinian refugees have been excluded from Israel, a Jewish state, whic ...[text shortened]... g and one is right, then on what criteria and is that something recognised in international law?
    Israel has been at war since its existence, but has not engaged in genocide like we see in regimes like the Sudan or in Iraq today.

    You chaps in Europe protest against Israel, so why not against genocide which is far worse?

    I suppose the history of anti-Semitism in Europe still has the better of you.
  10. 02 Aug '14 19:04
    Originally posted by whodey
    Israel has been at war since its existence, but has not engaged in genocide like we see in regimes like the Sudan or in Iraq today.

    You chaps in Europe protest against Israel, so why not against genocide which is far worse?

    I suppose the history of anti-Semitism in Europe still has the better of you.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Aug '14 19:05
    Originally posted by whodey
    Israel has been at war since its existence, but has not engaged in genocide like we see in regimes like the Sudan or in Iraq today.

    You chaps in Europe protest against Israel, so why not against genocide which is far worse?

    I suppose the history of anti-Semitism in Europe still has the better of you.
    So you do not want to answer the question then? I can do it for you. Both are acting in the same manner.

    I am not sure that ISIS have yet killed as many people in Iraq as the Americans.
    "We think it is roughly around half a million people dead. And that is likely a low estimate," says Hagopian. "People need to know the cost in human lives of the decision to go to war."

    The survey responses point to around 405,000 deaths attributable to the war and occupation in Iraq from 2003 to 2011. At least another 56,000 deaths should be added to that total from households forced to flee Iraq, the study authors estimate. More than 60 percent of the excess deaths of men, women, and children reported from 2003 to 2011 were the direct result of shootings, bombings, airstrikes, or other violence, according to the study. The rest came indirectly, from stress-related heart attacks or ruined sanitation and hospitals.

    "Wars kill people all kinds of ways, not just in shootings. And it exacts a toll on the invaders as well as the invaded," Hagopian says. Some 4,804 U.S., British, and other coalition armed service members died in the invasion and occupation of Iraq.


    Past estimates of Iraqis killed in the war and occupation have varied widely. U.S. Army war logs released by Wikileaks in 2010 pointed to more than 100,000, while a widely criticized study conducted by Opinion Research Business, a London-based polling agency, estimated Iraq war deaths at 1.2 million people through 2007.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/


    I am not aware that the ISIS killings to date amount to genocide but I will stand corrected if you send a link to the relevant UN decision. They may well exceed the IDF killings in Gaza but then again, the IDF have not stopped yet. Shall we hold our judgement on this one for a while?

    You are under the serious delusion that I have any reason to support ISIS. I don't. I am an atheist and advocate secular, inclusive democracy with tolerance of all responsible religions. I regard holy books as a wasteful use of both paper and reading time. So many much better books are available.

    I am not aware that anyone is waiting with bated breath for my opinion about Sudan.

    Is there a reason why I would go around condemning all the things in the world I dislike? Where the hell would I even start? Where the hell would I put the condemnations? Who the hell would read them?

    Your line of protest is infantile but oddly reminiscent of the link I gave before to a Fox programme about Gaza. is there a reason you Americans like that psychotic line of debate? It is quite disturbing but apparently it is not conclusive evidence that you are all insane. Just looks that way to a European.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V_m98GAdqKM
  12. 02 Aug '14 19:31 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by finnegan to Whodey
    So you do not want to answer the question then? I can do it for you. Both are acting in the same manner.

    I am not sure that ISIS have yet killed as many people in Iraq as the Americans. [quote]"We think it is roughly around half a million people dead. And that is likely a low estimate," says Hagopian. "People need to know the cost in human li ...[text shortened]... are all insane. Just looks that way to a European.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V_m98GAdqKM
    Now Whodey seems to be chanting 'ISIS!' rather than 'Hamas!' as a mantra that
    allegedly absolves Israel of all moral responsibility for its actions against the Palestinians.

    "is there a reason you Americans like that psychotic line of debate?"
    --Finnegan (to Whodey)

    Soothfast (who apparently admires Noam Chomsky, a critic of Israel) is an
    American writer here who's an honorable exception to the usual mindless
    American chorus of support for Israel. Perhaps because he's exasperated
    by the common abysmal levels of ignorance and stupidity in this forum,
    Soothfast sometimes expresses his criticisms in terse acerbic terms.
    (I tend to add further scholarly explanations to my criticisms.)
  13. 02 Aug '14 21:31
    Originally posted by finnegan
    So you do not want to answer the question then? I can do it for you. Both are acting in the same manner.

    I am not sure that ISIS have yet killed as many people in Iraq as the Americans. [quote]"We think it is roughly around half a million people dead. And that is likely a low estimate," says Hagopian. "People need to know the cost in human lives of the ...[text shortened]... are all insane. Just looks that way to a European.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V_m98GAdqKM
    My only point here is that the problems in Israel pale in comparison to horrific situations like in the Sudan. However, the media is fixated on Israel and people like you jump on hook, line, and sinker. You even seem to agree when mentioning the numbers that the US has killed in nations like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.

    The US loses two building and they take out two countries, yet we expect Israel to just sit there and take being pounded by rockets and infiltrated by myriads of tunnels?

    Pfft.
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Aug '14 21:38
    Well Whodey needs to be told the figures - this is his line of argument we are dealing with remember.
    The violence in Iraq has killed more than 5,500 civilians over the first six months of the year, according to a report by the United Nations that documents the massive humanitarian toll of the Sunni militant offensive.

    The Islamic State (Isis) and other Sunni insurgents seized control of the city of Falluja, as well as part of nearby Ramadi in Anbar province in early January. The militants then launched an offensive in June that has brought a huge swath of northern and western Iraq under their control.

    In its report, the UN mission to Iraq says at least 5,576 civilians were killed and another 11,665 wounded from 1 January until the end of June. Another 1.2 million have been driven from their homes by the violence, it adds.
    Shocking casualties from the ISIS onslaught in Iraq and something to be deeply concerned about.

    Even so, if that figure over 6 months is compared to the Gaza figures over less than one month, then I am appalled to say that the figures are comparable. What a sick contest that is - and what sick company for Israel to be keeping. One feels the greatest compassion for the ordinary people trying to live in this region. And huge anger on their behalf.
  15. 02 Aug '14 21:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey to Finnegan
    My only point here is that the problems in Israel pale in comparison to horrific situations like in the Sudan. However, the media is fixated on Israel and people like you jump on hook, line, and sinker. You even seem to agree when mentioning the numbers that the US has killed in nations like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.

    The US loses two buil ...[text shortened]... just sit there and take being pounded by rockets and infiltrated by myriads of tunnels?

    Pfft.
    If Whodey would like to discuss 'horrific situations...in the Sudan',
    there's nothing stopping him from creating a thread to discuss it.

    Instead, Whodey seems to be setting up a 'false dilemma', implying that
    one should *not* discuss the Israeli-Palestinian conflict just because another
    conflict may involve more deaths. In contrast to Whodey, perhaps, most
    people should be capable of discussing more than one subject at one time.

    I have heard some supporters of Israel extrapolate this to argue that Israel
    *never should be criticized at all* unless or until it does something *worse*
    than the worst Nazi crimes against the Jewish people. If the Third Reich
    (and its many European accomplices) killed six million Jews (I accept the
    conclusion of Raul Hilberg, an eminent Jewish historian of the Holocaust, that
    about 5.1 million, not 6 million, Jews were killed.), then should Israel have the
    'moral right' to kill *almost* six million Palestinians *without* being criticized?
    (And the Palestinians were not responsible for the Holocaust in Europe.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma