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Debates Forum

  1. 27 May '13 14:01
    Yes, Islam. My previous thread was deleted because it was deemed offensive. However, I was attempting to bring up some important discussions. Here are some questions that I have.

    1. Are elements within Islam disproportionately violent compared to other religious groups, or for that matter, any groups?

    2. If so, what should be done about it if anything?

    3. If not, why all the attention of Islam and violence?
  2. 27 May '13 14:06
    1. Your question is ill-defined. What elements? What groups?

    2. See 1.

    3. Because it's something that people are interested in, because of 9/11, islamophobia and the fact that most western countries have sizable muslim minorities.
  3. 27 May '13 14:15
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    1. Your question is ill-defined. What elements? What groups?

    2. See 1.

    3. Because it's something that people are interested in, because of 9/11, islamophobia and the fact that most western countries have sizable muslim minorities.
    Well I think that when the public sees a Muslim man covered in blood carrying a butchers knife after killing an infidel, it tends to capture the imagination. It also does not help the fact that about every month or so horrific stories like this seem to pop up in the media. In fact, I've seen statistics that 4 out of 10 people think that if you are Muslim, you have a higher tendency to be violent like this.

    Do you think that the media is demonizing this group unfairly? Is there some conspiracy or bias here or is there a problem?

    I'm in the process of trying to gather data comparing Islam to other groups but have had a hard time finding any. It may be that this data is just too much of a politically correct hot potato to gather and make public. Any contribution would be helpful if anyone can find some.
  4. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    27 May '13 14:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    1. Are elements within Islam disproportionately violent compared to other religious groups, or for that matter, any groups?[/b]
    You mean, like, in comparison to the Christians who don't start wars and murder hundreds of thousa... oh wait... millions upon millions of civilians?

    Did I hear GW say: Crusade?
    Yes I did.
  5. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    27 May '13 14:25
    Originally posted by whodey
    Yes, Islam. My previous thread was deleted because it was deemed offensive. However, I was attempting to bring up some important discussions. Here are some questions that I have.

    1. Are elements within Islam disproportionately violent compared to other religious groups, or for that matter, any groups?

    2. If so, what should be done about it if anything?

    3. If not, why all the attention of Islam and violence?
    No, Islam is not any more violent than any other religion (or at least any other Abrahamic religion). They are exactly the same. The only difference between it and, say, Christianity is that in western societies, Christianity is tempered by 600 years of enlightenment thought. Islam is not. At least not much. Today Islam has exactly the same influence on society that Christianity had on Europe in 1400. If Christianity could unravel the enlightenment (which many seek to do), it would be just as violent as Islam.
  6. 27 May '13 14:34
    Originally posted by whodey
    Yes, Islam. My previous thread was deleted because it was deemed offensive. However, I was attempting to bring up some important discussions. Here are some questions that I have.

    1. Are elements within Islam disproportionately violent compared to other religious groups, or for that matter, any groups?

    2. If so, what should be done about it if anything?

    3. If not, why all the attention of Islam and violence?
    No they are not disproportionally more violent so nothing needs to be done. Most Islam violence is done by various groups started and controlled by the CIA. This was to bring about the war on terror so it could later be used against anyone deemed a political enemy of the NWO. They have pretty much morphed the word terrorist to include Ron Paul supporters, constitutionalists,libertarians, gun owners, and veterans.
  7. Standard member vivify
    rain
    27 May '13 14:44 / 1 edit
    Islam is far more violent that Christianity, simply because the violent aspects of the bible have been replaced by Jesus' teachings (turn the other cheek, love, ect.) However, Judaism is arguably just a violent as Islam (in terms of beliefs), since they don't regard the New Testament of the bible. On the other, no one is afraid of people practicing Judaism like they are of muslims, because Jews don't act on the violent aspects of the bible like many muslims have with their texts.

    And the media isn't "demonizing" anything. Anytime the media reports things that are damaging to a group of people, that group always claims the same thing. For example, Catholics complained that the media demonized them with the whole child molestation thing, and the Tea Party claimed something similar when the media showed irate protesters holding signs with Obama as hitler, and focusing too much on the birther movement.

    It doesn't matter if it's "radicals" from Islam causing all the havoc. The fact remains that there's a lot of them, and their actions have been widespread and severly damaging. The image that Islam has is due to it's own people, not the media.
  8. 27 May '13 16:12 / 2 edits
    I was hoping for some statistics, not opinions.

    Also, I could care less how Christianity was 500 years ago. What is life like today? Are these opinions justified today that cast Islam in a dark light compared to other groups?
  9. 27 May '13 16:16
    Originally posted by whodey
    I was hoping for some statistics, not opinions.

    Also, I could care less how Christianity was 500 years ago. What is life like today? Are these opinions justified today that cast Islam in a dark light compared to other groups?
    You still haven't said what you want statistics on. You can't measure something if you haven't defined what you're measuring.
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    27 May '13 16:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    Well I think that when the public sees a Muslim man covered in blood carrying a butchers knife after killing an infidel, it tends to capture the imagination. It also does not help the fact that about every month or so horrific stories like this seem to pop up in the media. In fact, I've seen statistics that 4 out of 10 people think that if you are Muslim, y ...[text shortened]... potato to gather and make public. Any contribution would be helpful if anyone can find some.
    Is the guy in the London video "more violent" than James Kopp and the Army of God? http://www.armyofgod.com/JamesKopp.html
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    27 May '13 16:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    Islam is far more violent that Christianity, simply because the violent aspects of the bible have been replaced by Jesus' teachings (turn the other cheek, love, ect.) However, Judaism is arguably just a violent as Islam (in terms of beliefs), since they don't regard the New Testament of the bible. On the other, no one is afraid of people practicing Judaism everly damaging. The image that Islam has is due to it's own people, not the media.


    One of many: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre
  12. Standard member vivify
    rain
    27 May '13 17:10
    The kach group is a political party that did the attack. This was motivated by politics, not religion.

    Too easy.
  13. 27 May '13 17:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Yes, Islam. My previous thread was deleted because it was deemed offensive. However, I was attempting to bring up some important discussions. Here are some questions that I have.

    1. Are elements within Islam disproportionately violent compared to other religious groups, or for that matter, any groups?

    2. If so, what should be done about it if anything?

    3. If not, why all the attention of Islam and violence?
    Here is a study that does not cite data but includes a proposed approach to assessing the propensity of groups to seek to settle disputes with violence.

    http://www.wiscomp.org/pp-v1/Saira_Yamin.pdf

    This propensity is related to religion when it is present, but also to other things. For example identification with a group that has been historically subject to political exploitation could be additive to other factors such as the identification of the group by its religion instead of by its, say, genetic ethnicity. Thus religion may be a unifying principle, while not itself or solely a cause of the violence. It may be an "accident" that the unifying principle is religion and not genetic ethnicity. Or, religion may be a false front for what is really something else.

    Religious Identity and the Propensity for Group Violence: A Hierarchy of Underlying Factors

    Key:

    Religio-psychological contextualization of dispute: role of religious leadership, cultural religiosity, dispute over religious sites and territory; manipulation or selective use of religious text

    Psychological factors: communication, media, perceptions, collective history, historical grievance, pseudospeciation, insecurity, mistrust an d suspicion

    Socio-economic and political factors: rank disequilibrium, political participation, economic factors

    Demographic: relative strength of groups, ability to consolidate and mobilize

    Alliances: sources of support and funding: providing fuel and vigor

    Interestingly, the hierarchy is upside down in the graphic on page 18. I think this represents the idea that pragmatic factors (relative strength, alliances) are the tipping points in whether these disputes go to violence.
  14. 27 May '13 18:05
    Violence, shmiolence, just google images of "burqa" and look at the plight of women under Islamic rule and say OMGWTFBBQ who could do such a thing?
    A religion and culture with a medieval mindset that is inexcusable.
  15. 27 May '13 18:19
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    Violence, shmiolence, just google images of "burqa" and look at the plight of women under Islamic rule and say OMGWTFBBQ who could do such a thing?
    A religion and culture with a medieval mindset that is inexcusable.
    Do you know the percentage of muslim women who wear a burqa?