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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    07 Oct '16 08:58 / 5 edits
    https://vimeo.com/181319721

    This is a very clear and effective video showing the headbanging way Israel plays with everyone's minds.

    There are two different sets of rights for citizens in Israel, one for Jews based on the Law of Return, and one for others based on a 1952 Citizenship Law. The first takes legal priority over the second. The first provides for unlimited entry and citizenship for Jews from around the world. The second only allows ciizenship by marriage to an existing citizen, which was only to be allowed after five years of residence. This right was simply ignored until the Israeli Supreme Court insisted in 1994 that the right be respected, after which a new law in 2003 stopped it. Now for example it is still legally permitted for a Palestinian from one side of the line to marry another Palestinian from the other side, but it is not legal for them to live together on either side.

    Israel does not recognise "Israeli" as a nationality. Instead, most people are classified as Arab or Jew, with some 132 other nationalities also recognised and contributing to the legal status of a resident.

    The Oslo Accords are too often seen as a peace initiative. In reality, they established a separate legal identity for Palestinians and facilitated the entrenchment of apartheid. It enables Israel to claim it is a democracy bound by law, and to refer to the equal rights of all citizens, while continuing to increase the oppressive restrictions on the basic human rights - including the right to marriage and a family life- of non Jewish residents and citizens.
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    07 Oct '16 12:58 / 2 edits
    One thing the video doesn't discuss is why this is the situation in Israel. I think we can all agree that Israel is perpetually at war; there have been car-bombings in Israel from militant Palestinian groups, and much of the Arab world hates Israel.

    I don't think it's fair to look at only an action a nation takes without considering why.
  3. 07 Oct '16 13:14
    Originally posted by vivify
    One thing the video doesn't discuss is why this is the situation in Israel. I think we can all agree that Israel is perpetually at war; there have been car-bombings in Israel from militant Palestinian groups, and much of the Arab world hates Israel.

    I don't think it's fair to look at only an action a nation takes without considering why.
    Furthermore, let's recognize that one of the main reasons we have constant criticism of Israel, the regions only democracy is that it is very thinly veiled socially acceptable hatred. Post 9/11 the world should give tremendous latitude for those who continually fight terrorists.
  4. 07 Oct '16 14:18
    Originally posted by finnegan
    [b]https://vimeo.com/181319721

    Israel does not recognise "Israeli" as a nationality. Instead, most people are classified as Arab or Jew, with some 132 other nationalities also recognised and contributing to the legal status of a resident.
    Hmm. I wonder how groups like ISIS and Hamas treat Jews.

    Any idea?
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    07 Oct '16 14:37
    Originally posted by vivify
    One thing the video doesn't discuss is why this is the situation in Israel. I think we can all agree that Israel is perpetually at war; there have been car-bombings in Israel from militant Palestinian groups, and much of the Arab world hates Israel.

    I don't think it's fair to look at only an action a nation takes without considering why.
    Israel has made itself perpetually at war by continuing to occupy and oppress millions of people. The constant pity party for this aggressive, militaristic empire is ridiculous.
  6. 07 Oct '16 14:40
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Israel has made itself perpetually at war by continuing to occupy and oppress millions of people. The constant pity party for this aggressive, militaristic empire is ridiculous.
    It's all Israel's fault?

    Ok then.
  7. 07 Oct '16 14:56
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Israel has made itself perpetually at war by continuing to occupy and oppress millions of people. The constant pity party for this aggressive, militaristic empire is ridiculous.
    This is a classic example of blame the victim. Israel has been attacked since the day it was established. It has been the victim of countless decades of bombs on school buses and attacks on civilians. It is the regions only democracy yet you blame it for its situation. We should have far more sympathy for Israel and far less for racist fools who try to defend fundamental religious attacks of the Arab world on civilians.
  8. Standard member vivify
    rain
    07 Oct '16 15:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Israel has made itself perpetually at war by continuing to occupy and oppress millions of people. The constant pity party for this aggressive, militaristic empire is ridiculous.
    Again, there are reasons for it. Simply bringing up Israel's occupation doesn't do justice to the reality of the situation. Notice how you left out that Israel actually evacuated Gaza (in 2005), and left it to the Palestinians. Since then, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier and rockets continually being fired into Israel have resulted in Israel taking actions to protect themselves.

    No one gives credit to Israel for actually leaving Gaza; people only attack Israel for taking actions to protect themselves.
  9. 07 Oct '16 15:01
    Originally posted by vivify
    Again, there are reasons for it. Simply bringing up Israel's occupation doesn't do justice to the reality of the situation. Notice how you left out that Israel actually evacuated Gaza, and left it to the Palestinians. Since then, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier and rockets continually being fired into Israel have resulted in Israel taking actions to p ...[text shortened]... l for actually leaving Gaza; people only attack Israel for taking actions to protect themselves.
    Nonsense. If it were not for the Jews in Israel the region would be a virtual utopia.
  10. 07 Oct '16 15:02
    Originally posted by finnegan
    https://vimeo.com/181319721

    This is a very clear and effective video showing the headbanging way Israel plays with everyone's minds.

    There are two different sets of rights for citizens in Israel, one for Jews based on the Law of Return, and one for others based on a 1952 Citizenship Law. The first takes legal priority over the second. The first pro ...[text shortened]... ights - including the right to marriage and a family life- of non Jewish residents and citizens.
    Thanks for another Israel bashing thread.

    I wonder if there are many murders there as there is in Chicago.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    07 Oct '16 21:56
    Originally posted by whodey
    Thanks for another Israel bashing thread.

    I wonder if there are many murders there as there is in Chicago.
    http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/americas/1.745742

    Jewish Man Indicted After Criticizing Israel, U.S. at Kansas Q&A With Dennis Ross
    If people can be arrested for asking questions at library events, 'then I guess we're going to have to shut the library down,' says outraged director about the May incident.
    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/americas/1.745742


    Obviously Americans dislike criticism of Israeli democracy.
  12. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    07 Oct '16 21:59
    Originally posted by vivify
    Again, there are reasons for it. Simply bringing up Israel's occupation doesn't do justice to the reality of the situation. Notice how you left out that Israel actually evacuated Gaza (in 2005), and left it to the Palestinians. Since then, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier and rockets continually being fired into Israel have resulted in Israel taking ac ...[text shortened]... l for actually leaving Gaza; people only attack Israel for taking actions to protect themselves.
    No one gives Israel credit for leaving Gaza because Israel remains in complete control of Gaza. It is a tiny enclave, and nothing is allowed to happen there that might enable the development of a viable entity.

    e.g. http://mondoweiss.net/2016/03/study-at-least-78-of-humanitarian-aid-intended-for-palestinians-ends-up-in-israeli-coffers/

    At least 78% of humanitarian aid intended for Palestinians ends up in Israeli coffers
  13. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    07 Oct '16 22:03
    Originally posted by quackquack
    This is a classic example of blame the victim. Israel has been attacked since the day it was established. It has been the victim of countless decades of bombs on school buses and attacks on civilians. It is the regions only democracy yet you blame it for its situation. We should have far more sympathy for Israel and far less for racist fools who try to defend fundamental religious attacks of the Arab world on civilians.
    If you read the article I cited in the OP you would concede that Israel is not in fact a democracy. It is an aprtheid regime and excludes much of its population from civil rights. The idea that there are two separate sets of citizenship rights, one for Jews and one for non Jews, says all you need to know - it is not a democracy. Similarly, aparttheid South Africa claimed to be a beacon of democracy on similar terms.

    The tale of Israel's permanent existential threats from violent neighbours is just that - a myth.
  14. Standard member vivify
    rain
    07 Oct '16 22:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    No one gives Israel credit for leaving Gaza because Israel remains in complete control of Gaza. It is a tiny enclave, and nothing is allowed to happen there that might enable the development of a viable entity.

    e.g. http://mondoweiss.net/2016/03/study-at-least-78-of-humanitarian-aid-intended-for-palestinians-ends-up-in-israeli-coffers/

    At least 78% of humanitarian aid intended for Palestinians ends up in Israeli coffers
    That's unfair, isn't it? Israel did the right thing, only to be repaid with constant rocket fire.

    Peace takes both sides, and Hamas wasn't willing, while Israel clearly was; this is the only reason why Israel occupies Gaza.
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    07 Oct '16 23:38
    Originally posted by vivify
    Again, there are reasons for it. Simply bringing up Israel's occupation doesn't do justice to the reality of the situation. Notice how you left out that Israel actually evacuated Gaza (in 2005), and left it to the Palestinians. Since then, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier and rockets continually being fired into Israel have resulted in Israel taking ac ...[text shortened]... l for actually leaving Gaza; people only attack Israel for taking actions to protect themselves.
    Israel maintains a blockade of Gaza, which is an act of war. They have killed many times more Palestinians then they have suffered losses through any Palestinian action. They are the aggressor, not the people they occupy or try to dominate through blockade.

    Their actual removal of troops from Gaza means nothing when they are willing to re-enter at their pleasure. They did so a few years ago and killed about 1300 Palestinians the majority civilians. Actions in self-defense must be proportional and Israel's rarely, if ever, are; they are a consistent and habitual violator of international law and human rights.