Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    28 Feb '18 19:02
    Sir John Major is advocating a free vote in the
    Commons to say yes or no to final Brexit deal.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-43229965/sir-john-major-parliament-could-order-another-brexit-referendum

    Is he mad?

    Does he think he is living in a democracy or something?
  2. Behind the scenes
    Joined
    27 Jun '16
    Moves
    1391
    28 Feb '18 23:201 edit
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Sir John Major is advocating a free vote in the
    Commons to say yes or no to final Brexit deal.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-43229965/sir-john-major-parliament-could-order-another-brexit-referendum

    Is he mad?

    Does he think he is living in a democracy or something?
    Sir John Major is advocating a free vote in the Commons to say yes or no to final Brexit deal.


    Is this different than an expensive vote in the Commons??😀 Seriously though, I thought the UK already voted on this.
  3. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56242
    01 Mar '18 03:46
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Sir John Major is advocating a free vote in the Commons to say yes or no to final Brexit deal.


    Is this different than an expensive vote in the Commons??😀 Seriously though, I thought the UK already voted on this.
    No, they had a non-binding referendum on it.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    01 Mar '18 05:00
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    No, they had a non-binding referendum on it.
    And the referendum was a choice between.
    Staying in the EU
    or
    Getting out of the EU with a deal that nobody had any idea about.


    The proposal is for a free vote over the deal.
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    19253
    01 Mar '18 05:24
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Sir John Major is advocating a free vote in the
    Commons to say yes or no to final Brexit deal.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-43229965/sir-john-major-parliament-could-order-another-brexit-referendum

    Is he mad?

    Does he think he is living in a democracy or something?
    The ultimate test was alraedy had -- a massive public vote where every single person who has a right to vote normally was allowed to vote.

    It was supposed to be binding, and God knows that if it was a Bremain victory they would have used this as areason to never put it to the question again and would have opposed any attempt to have a second vote on it for decades to come.

    Suddenly, though, we want more votes, more temperature taking, and more feet dragging.
  6. Subscriberdivegeester
    Leave Means Leave
    Voting not marching!
    Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    88783
    01 Mar '18 06:09
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Sir John Major is advocating a free vote in the
    Commons to say yes or no to final Brexit deal.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-43229965/sir-john-major-parliament-could-order-another-brexit-referendum

    Is he mad?

    Does he think he is living in a democracy or something?
    There will be no sabotage of Brexit as no one has the political stomach for it, especially Corbyn who spectacularly shot himself and his party in the foot with his shift in policy over the customs union. Fox’s excellent speech this week highlighted the flaws in his self serving idea.

    The “deal” will be a compromise of course and rightly so, but there will be a “deal” and the UK will be leaving the EU.

    Major had his day in the sun and was partly for blame for the mess in the first place, as were all the other UK leaders who rode the EU gravy train for decades without listening to the voice of the British people.
  7. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56242
    01 Mar '18 06:13
    If Britain’s not in the custom’s union (EEA), they’re going to have grave difficulties getting their adaquacies in order.
    And they’re gonna have to double the effort towards the FTC.

    So they will be in it.
    And they will only be in when natural persons are part of the free flowing commodities...

    Oh yes, who’s just done a course about the GDPR!
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    01 Mar '18 07:00
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    There will be no sabotage of Brexit as no one has the political stomach for it, especially Corbyn who spectacularly shot himself and his party in the foot with his shift in policy over the customs union. Fox’s excellent speech this week highlighted the flaws in his self serving idea.

    The “deal” will be a compromise of course and rightly so, but ther ...[text shortened]... rs who rode the EU gravy train for decades without listening to the voice of the British people.
    Lots of detail to iron out ... but it's all solvable.
    Except the NI situation.
    What the hell will happen there? Some party will feel mighty aggrieved.

    How do you see it dive?
  9. Joined
    20 Oct '16
    Moves
    8799
    01 Mar '18 07:15
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Sir John Major is advocating a free vote in the
    Commons to say yes or no to final Brexit deal.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-43229965/sir-john-major-parliament-could-order-another-brexit-referendum

    Is he mad?

    Does he think he is living in a democracy or something?
    If one looks merely at the parliamentary arithmetic (even without looking at public opinion) the ship of staying in the EU has sailed. This is for a few reasons.

    Mrs May, although a eurosceptic remainer, has accepted result of the referendum. She thought there were benefits to the EU but she was never a Europhile. This is the case for many Tory MPs, who despite being remainers originally have accepted the result. Then there are the Tory MPs who backed brexit. This is about 60 MPs. Lastly we have the Europhile Tories who might rebel against the government. This is about 8 MPs.

    Next we have Labour. Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have voted against the EU for 40 years. The whole hard left faction has launched a takeover of the Labour party, but there are still 80-90 Blairite moderates who would rebel against Corbyn and vote to stay in the EU.

    Next we have the Lib Dems who are undoubtedly pro-EU, although they only have 8 seats.

    The Scottish national party has 35 seats, but I'm not sure how they would vote. They have flip flopped on the issue. In 2014 they were happy for Scotland to leave the EU if they had voted for independence. Then they changed their minds and tried to use it to stoke support for independence. This didn't work and the party got a clubbing at the election. I don't doubt they will vote to frustrate the UK government though. Independence trumps all.

    The Democratic unionists campaigned for brexit, but they only have 10 MPs.

    Whether we leave or not has been settled, just going on the parliamentary numbers. It's really with how we leave that parliament is more evenly split.
  10. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    01 Mar '18 07:23
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    The ultimate test was alraedy had -- a massive public vote where every single person who has a right to vote normally was allowed to vote.

    It was supposed to be binding, and God knows that if it was a Bremain victory they would have used this as areason to never put it to the question again and would have opposed any attempt to have a second vote ...[text shortened]... e.

    Suddenly, though, we want more votes, more temperature taking, and more feet dragging.
    The difference is that Remain voters knew what they were voting for; the status quo.
    The Leave voters were voting for the unknown.

    And the referendum was not binding. The Conservatives promised to "honour" it I think.
  11. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    01 Mar '18 07:24
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka

    Whether we leave or not has been settled, just going on the parliamentary numbers. It's really with how we leave that parliament is more evenly split.
    Which is what Major wants a vote on.
  12. Joined
    20 Oct '16
    Moves
    8799
    01 Mar '18 07:27
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Lots of detail to iron out ... but it's all solvable.
    Except the NI situation.
    What the hell will happen there? Some party will feel mighty aggrieved.

    How do you see it dive?
    The analysis shows that the ROI would be worse off than any other EU state, including the UK, should the EU want to impose tariffs. This is because the UK buys 50% of their output.

    The Irish government and the EU are trying to use brexit to achieve a de facto united Ireland. They have insisted that there is no solutiom other than Northern Ireland staying aligned with the EU, which is of course not going to sit with the UK government, the DUP or the unionist majority in Northern Ireland. I think that Ireland will stick to the EU line until it becomes apparent that they can come to their own solution with the UK outside the EU or have tariffs put on their goods. Ireland has seemingly taken some pleasure in holding power over the UK, but Mr Varadkar must be careful what he wishes for. If he pushes the UK government too far and prompts a walkout it will be Ireland who suffers.
  13. Seongnam, S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    19253
    01 Mar '18 07:44
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    The difference is that Remain voters knew what they were voting for; the status quo.
    The Leave voters were voting for the unknown.

    And the referendum was not binding. The Conservatives promised to "honour" it I think.
    The whole thing featured all these politicians warning how much this would be treated like it was binding even though the legal infrastructure prevented it.

    And in the first clause it sounds like you are very conservative.

    "We can't vote for something that is... unknown!"

    As if lif ebefore teh EU was inconceivable.
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    01 Mar '18 09:01
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    "We can't vote for something that is... unknown!"

    As if lif ebefore teh EU was inconceivable.
    Ah yes the 60s.
    Is that what the UK is returning to? ... Of course not.

    btw. Il ikey our codedm essages
  15. Joined
    18 Jan '07
    Moves
    7276
    01 Mar '18 10:03
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    And the referendum was a choice between.
    Staying in the EU
    or
    Getting out of the EU with a deal that nobody had any idea about.


    The proposal is for a free vote over the deal.
    You knew that when you voted. Stop whining and get TF out already.
Back to Top