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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member vivify
    rain
    15 Apr '13 22:14
    Being gay, lesbian or bi is about one thing: being true to who you are. But being transgendered seems the opposite of that; it's about being unhappy with who are you, and changing into what you think you should be. This still doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the right to change their bodies if they want; but should they really lumped in the same category as LGBT's?
  2. 15 Apr '13 22:22
    No idea how to respond to that.

    How one feels is one thing. How society feels is another.
    There are still plenty of people in the world with a phobia
    and negative feelings towards gays and lesbians never mind
    talking about someone who wants to change their gender.

    There is a debate going on here in Ireland over gay marriage.
    You can have a civil ceremony with succession rights and all that
    but they cannot have a marriage. Society doesn't allow for it.

    As for transgenders? While they exist, society does not know
    how to treat them.

    I would not offer a personal view. The subject is too sensitive.
    All I will say is that I am a heterosexual regular male who is
    only interested in women.

    I would not have the first clue about how a gay person feels.
    And I certainly wouldn't know how a transgender person feels.
  3. 15 Apr '13 22:39
    Originally posted by vivify
    Being gay, lesbian or bi is about one thing: being true to who you are. But being transgendered seems the opposite of that; it's about being unhappy with who are you, and changing into what you think you should be. This still doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the right to change their bodies if they want; but should they really lumped in the same category as LGBT's?
    Should transgendered people get the same respect as gays?

    YES.

    Should transgendered and gay people get the same respect as heterosexuals?

    YES.
  4. 15 Apr '13 22:50
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Should transgendered people get the same respect as gays?

    YES.

    Should transgendered and gay people get the same respect as heterosexuals?

    YES.
    I would agree that any decent upright law abiding human being
    deserves respect. But would I agree on their view of sexuality?

    No.

    People are still arguing over whether they are born that way
    or is it a choice they make later in their lives.

    Not being that way inclined that's a question I cannot answer.
  5. 15 Apr '13 22:55
    Originally posted by vivify
    Being gay, lesbian or bi is about one thing: being true to who you are. But being transgendered seems the opposite of that; it's about being unhappy with who are you, and changing into what you think you should be. This still doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the right to change their bodies if they want; but should they really lumped in the same category as LGBT's?
    How would you define what gender a transgendered person truly is? The gender of their body or their mind? I think transgendered people truly are trying to be true to who they truly are. I think it's a little more than just thinking "hey.. I think I'd prefer to be a <insert gender here>"

    Do you think someone chooses to be transgendered or it is merely a result of experiences?
  6. 15 Apr '13 23:03
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    I would agree that any decent upright law abiding human being
    deserves respect. But would I agree on their view of sexuality?

    No.

    People are still arguing over whether they are born that way
    or is it a choice they make later in their lives.

    Not being that way inclined that's a question I cannot answer.
    A) I think you are wrong about people arguing over whether gay people are born that way, unless you think they choose to become members of a persecuted minority for the fun of it.

    B) It dosn't really matter why they are gay, lesbian, Bisexual, or Transgender they still deserve exactly the same respect, and rights as you.
  7. 15 Apr '13 23:18
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    A) I think you are wrong about people arguing over whether gay people are born that way, unless you think they choose to become members of a persecuted minority for the fun of it.

    B) It dosn't really matter why they are gay, lesbian, Bisexual, or Transgender they still deserve exactly the same respect, and rights as you.
    I have already said that above if you had read my post.

    Every human being deserves respect. Even more so if they are
    decent and honest, upright and law abiding.

    It's the sexuality thing that I cannot discuss
    because I know nothing about it. I can only
    speak of regular sexual inclinations. I don't
    understand the thinking or physical longings
    of gays and lesbians so therefore I cannot
    comment on that.

    I would not even be arrogant as to suggest
    that it is wrong or unnatural because I am not
    gay so I could not know how a gay person thinks.

    Gay people say that they believe themselves to
    be normal. I am not qualified to say if they are or
    not. All I am saying is yes all humans beings should
    get respect and dignity. As for sexual orientation?
    I don't know and society is not sure either.
  8. Standard member vivify
    rain
    16 Apr '13 00:45
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    How would you define what gender a transgendered person truly is? The gender of their body or their mind? I think transgendered people truly are trying to be true to who they truly are. I think it's a little more than just thinking "hey.. I think I'd prefer to be a <insert gender here>"

    Do you think someone chooses to be transgendered or it is merely a result of experiences?
    Unlike the gay rights movement, which is about being true to who you are, transgendered people actually change who they are, to fit what they think they should be. Don't you see a difference in that?

    The thread isn't about whether they deserve respect; of course they, they're human. This thread is about whether or not being transgendered is a similar issue to being gay, which I don't think it is. Being gay isn't a choice, being transgendered definitely is.
  9. 16 Apr '13 00:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    Unlike the gay rights movement, which is about being true to who you are, transgendered people actually change who they are, to fit what they think they should be. Don't you see a difference in that?

    The thread isn't about whether they deserve respect; of course they, they're human. This thread is about whether or not being transgendered is a similar i ...[text shortened]... y, which I don't think it is. Being gay isn't a choice, being transgendered definitely is.
    Unlike the gay rights movement, which is about being true to who you are, transgendered people actually change who they are, to fit what they think they should be.

    You repeat that as if it's somehow a proven fact. It isn't.

    The thread isn't about whether they deserve respect; of course they, they're human.

    So why is that question essentially the title of your post if the thread doesn't have to do with it?

    Being gay isn't a choice, being transgendered definitely is.

    Present your evidence that being transgendered definitely is a choice.
  10. 16 Apr '13 00:52
    Originally posted by vivify
    Being gay, lesbian or bi is about one thing: being true to who you are. But being transgendered seems the opposite of that; it's about being unhappy with who are you, and changing into what you think you should be. This still doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the right to change their bodies if they want; but should they really lumped in the same category as LGBT's?
    I don't see the difference you draw between transgender and gay people. I firmly believe that sexual behavior is private, and not what people ought to gain or lose respect over. That said, people have strong feelings on these matters, that ought not just be dismissed because they aren't politically correct.

    Straight people ought not believe they can dictate the choices of others, and gays or transgenders ought not try to change the dominant culture.
  11. 16 Apr '13 00:55
    Originally posted by vivify
    Unlike the gay rights movement, which is about being true to who you are, transgendered people actually change who they are, to fit what they think they should be. Don't you see a difference in that?

    The thread isn't about whether they deserve respect; of course they, they're human. This thread is about whether or not being transgendered is a similar i ...[text shortened]... y, which I don't think it is. Being gay isn't a choice, being transgendered definitely is.
    Note...

    At leaset some evidence that transexualism is NOT a choice:

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full

    http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/article/transsexualism
  12. 16 Apr '13 00:57
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    [b]Unlike the gay rights movement, which is about being true to who you are, transgendered people actually change who they are, to fit what they think they should be.

    You repeat that as if it's somehow a proven fact. It isn't.

    The thread isn't about whether they deserve respect; of course they, they're human.

    So why is that question e ...[text shortened]... finitely is.[/b]

    Present your evidence that being transgendered definitely is a choice.[/b]
    Almost everything in life is a matter of choices. It isn't an established fact that any act or behavior of any human isn't a matter of choice.

    Expressing sexuality in any manner whatsoever is a choice. Some people choose celibacy.
  13. 16 Apr '13 01:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Almost everything in life is a matter of choices. It isn't an established fact that any act or behavior of any human isn't a matter of choice.

    Expressing sexuality in any manner whatsoever is a choice. Some people choose celibacy.
    Homosexuality isn't a behavior or an act just like heterosexuality isn't a behavior or an act.

    Celibacy isn't a sexual orientation.

    No one is even talking about the expression of sexuality - we are talking about orientation. Do you not know the difference?
  14. 16 Apr '13 01:09
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Homosexuality isn't a behavior or an act just like heterosexuality isn't a behavior or an act.

    Celibacy isn't a sexual orientation.

    No one is even talking about the expression of sexuality - we are talking about orientation. Do you not know the difference?
    Expression is the act of demonstrating orientation. It is a choice. Every act of thinking man is a choice.

    "Celibacy isn't a sexual orientation."

    It is a choice to ignore a sexual orientation. If it is seriously held, it becomes a sexual orientation.
  15. 16 Apr '13 01:39
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Expression is the act of demonstrating orientation. It is a choice. Every act of thinking man is a choice.

    "Celibacy isn't a sexual orientation."

    It is a choice to ignore a sexual orientation. If it is seriously held, it becomes a sexual orientation.
    Expression is the act of demonstrating orientation. It is a choice.

    Expression is a choice. Orientation is not.

    If it is seriously held, it becomes a sexual orientation.

    No, it doesn't. Celibacy is merely the choice not to take part in an act.