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  1. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    28 Feb '18 13:07
    A massive catastrophe in the making:

    CAPE TOWN (Reuters) - South Africa took a step on Tuesday to hasten the transfer of land from white to black owners when parliament backed a motion seeking to change the constitution to allow land expropriation without compensation.

    The ruling African National Congress has long promised reforms to redress racial disparities in land ownership and the subject remains highly emotive more than two decades after the end of apartheid. Whites still own most of South Africa’s land following centuries of brutal colonial dispossession.

    Tuesday’s motion was brought by the radical left Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) party but was supported by the ANC, which controls almost two-thirds of the parliament compared with EFF’s 6 percent.

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa said after his inauguration two weeks ago that he would speed up the transfer of land to black people although he stressed that food production and security must be preserved.

    Launching a debate on the motion in parliament, EFF leader Julius Malema said “it was time for justice” on the land issue.

    “We must ensure that we restore the dignity of our people without compensating the criminals who stole our land,” he said.


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-safrica-land-exproriation/vote-in-south-africas-parliament-moves-land-reform-closer-idUSKCN1GB22I

    Next stop Zimbabwe.
  2. Standard membervivify
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    28 Feb '18 15:57
    Which part are you calling a "catastrophe"? The speeding up part, or transfer of land part?
  3. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Feb '18 16:23
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Which part are you calling a "catastrophe"? The speeding up part, or transfer of land part?
    Let me translate.

    Phil is saying that the land will be taken from competent white farmers and given to incompetent black cronies of the ruling party. Then everyone will starve and racists will say "I told you so. Blacks are incompetent. They need whites to control their governments for their own good."

    This is what happened in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe.

    From the article linked in OP:

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa said after his inauguration two weeks ago that he would speed up the transfer of land to black people although he stressed that food production and security must be preserved.
  4. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Feb '18 16:30
    I must point out that this land really belongs to the Khoi people, not blacks. Blacks come from Mali and Nigeria not South Africa.

    YouTube : Gods Must Be Crazy
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Feb '18 16:442 edits
    Khoisan people, indigenous to Southeast Africa:

    tinyurl.com/y8x7w4hj
    tinyurl.com/yczc2ehc

    Black person, indigenous to West Africa:

    tinyurl.com/y8k74fbm

    https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1295289/khoisan-says-sa-is-theirs-all-of-it/
  6. Joined
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    28 Feb '18 17:01
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Let me translate.

    Phil is saying that the land will be taken from competent white farmers and given to incompetent black cronies of the ruling party. Then everyone will starve and racists will say "I told you so. Blacks are incompetent. They need whites to control their governments for their own good."

    This is what happened in Rhodesia/Zimbab ...[text shortened]... although he stressed that [b]food production
    and security must be preserved.[/quote][/b]
    Looking at Zimbabwe, fears are legitimate. Zimbabwe went from being the most successful African country to total ruin.

    Inflation reached 80 000 000 000 percent at the peak of the hyperinflation crisis. You could leave home with enough money to buy bread but by the time you arrived the price has quadrupled. Millions lost their life savings.

    Once the breadbasket of Africa, Zimbabwe's fertile land is overgrown with weeds, abandoned farms and derelict equipment. Unemployment is 95%. It is among the poorest countries in Africa, when it was among the richest before the land confiscation.

    Much of the confiscated land didn't go to the people anyway. Most of the farms were taken by Mugabe's cronies. His wife, Grace Marufu, used the reserve bank of Zimbabwe as her personal bank account. She spent so much money in London and Paris that they actually banned her from shopping there, since they felt bad for Zimbabweans.

    Zimbabweans were the most educated people in Africa, yet now millions of them do menial work here in South Africa. My domestic worker is 24 years old. Her parents died of starvation in the hyperinflation and she was raised by her half sister.

    Every night she stays up until 1 am studying to get her school certificate. She is a competent accountant yet she has to clean my family's toilets and make our beds because there are no jobs in Zimbabwe. The same is true for our gardener and for millions of Zimbabweans doing this menial work around South Africa, most of whom are highly educated, well spoken people who have degrees.

    I have not met a single black Zimbabwean who thinks the land reform made them better off. In fact, the opposite is true. They curse Mugabe and the day they voted him in with every breath.

    The disaster north of the border is what happens when you tamper with property rights. Don't presumptiously make sweeping statements about those who criticize land reform when you don't know anything about the economic disaster it has caused and the amount of human suffering that exists because of it. To make it about race is parochial, ignorant of history, basic economics and the opinions of Zimbabweans.

    What are you even on about about whites governing South Africa? Besides the fact that it's not relevant to land reform, South Africa has had a black majority government for almost a quarter of a century.
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    28 Feb '18 17:08
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Khoisan people, indigenous to Southeast Africa:

    tinyurl.com/y8x7w4hj
    tinyurl.com/yczc2ehc

    Black person, indigenous to West Africa:

    tinyurl.com/y8k74fbm

    https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1295289/khoisan-says-sa-is-theirs-all-of-it/
    And America belongs exclusively to Native Americans. They were there first. It's time to expropriate New York City, it's in Iroquois lands. Actually, you might as well expropriate all of North and South America and give it to Native Americans. Don't forget about Australia too.

    Where do you draw the line with this? Why is America different? Because America killed all their indigenous people so there aren't many left to complain?

    People migrate and land is conquered. You can't try and make it how it was. Next we'll take back Turkey for Byzantium and rename Istanbul Constantinople.
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Feb '18 17:203 edits
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    And America belongs exclusively to Native Americans. They were there first. It's time to expropriate New York City, it's in Iroquois lands. Actually, you might as well expropriate all of North and South America and give it to Native Americans. Don't forget about Australia too.

    Where do you draw the line with this? Why is America different? Because Ame ...[text shortened]... ake it how it was. Next we'll take back Turkey for Byzantium and rename Istanbul Constantinople.
    The USA isn't doing extensive land reforms based on race.*

    Believe me, the white fanatics have Constantinople on the list. Especially the Greeks and Russians. The Turks need to be very careful.

    *IF the USA government were taking land from Jews and Japanese (or whoever) and giving it to "native" Anglos then you might have a point.
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Feb '18 17:232 edits
    The reason I know about this is because white racists quote articles about this all the friggin time. Anglo racists are obsessed with Zimbabwe and South Africa.

    For example:

    https://www.amren.com/news/2012/05/life-in-rhodesia-was-better-than-zimbabwe/

    This is AmRen in it's own words:

    https://www.amren.com/about/

    What We Believe
    Race is an important aspect of individual and group identity. Of all the fault lines that divide society—language, religion, class, ideology—it is the most prominent and divisive. Race and racial conflict are at the heart of some of the most serious challenges the Western World faces in the 21st century.

    The problems of race cannot be solved without adequate understanding. Attempts to gloss over the significance of race or even to deny its reality only make problems worse. Progress requires the study of all aspects of race, whether historical, cultural, or biological. This approach is known as race realism.

    American Renaissance

    American Renaissance was published as a monthly print magazine from October 1990 through January 2012. All back issues are available here. AR has had a web presence since 1994, and we consider AmRen.com to be the Internet’s premier race-realist site. Every weekday we publish articles and news items from a world-wide race-realist perspective.
  10. Joined
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    28 Feb '18 17:25
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    The reason I know about this is because white racists quote articles about this all the friggin time. Anglo racists are obsessed with Zimbabwe and South Africa.

    For example:

    https://www.amren.com/podcasts/2018/02/expropriation-without-compensation/
    Actually it is only you on here ranting and raving about racism.
  11. Joined
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    28 Feb '18 17:491 edit
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    The USA isn't doing extensive land reforms based on race.*

    Believe me, the white fanatics have Constantinople on the list. Especially the Greeks and Russians. The Turks need to be very careful.

    *IF the USA government were taking land from Jews and Japanese (or whoever) and giving it to "native" Anglos then you might have a point.
    The land that is now "Turkey" was originally inhabited by Caucasian peoples. The Turks invaded and displaced them. Thus I detect an inconsistency in your argument. Why are white people who advocate for the land they originally inhabited back fanatics, while for everyone else it's praiseworthy? It seems you are less concerned about land being returned to its original owner than taking a dig at white people.

    You need to decide whether you agree with land reform (In which case North and South America, Australia and South Africa will be given back to their indigenous populations, not to mention Turks being removed from Turkey and replaced by Europeans or Arabs being removed from Egypt and replaced by Copts), or you need to admit the whole thing is preposterous.
  12. Joined
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    28 Feb '18 17:55
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    The reason I know about this is because white racists quote articles about this all the friggin time. Anglo racists are obsessed with Zimbabwe and South Africa.

    For example:

    https://www.amren.com/news/2012/05/life-in-rhodesia-was-better-than-zimbabwe/

    This is AmRen in it's own words:

    https://www.amren.com/about/

    What We Believe ...[text shortened]... y weekday we publish articles and news items from a world-wide race-realist perspective.
    Some white racist in Mississippi being obsessed with the legacy of apartheid South Africa or white minority Zimbabwe is irrelevant to the facts surrounding the consequences of land reform. The two are totally different issues.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Feb '18 17:591 edit
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    The land that is now "Turkey" was originally inhabited by Caucasian peoples. The Turks invaded and displaced them. Thus I detect an inconsistency in your argument. Why are white people who advocate for the land they originally inhabited back fanatics, while for everyone else it's praiseworthy? It seems you are less concerned about land being returned to i ...[text shortened]... removed from Egypt and replaced by Copts), or you need to admit the whole thing is preposterous.
    Fanaticism and praiseworthiness are not opposed. Where did I praise anyone anyway?

    What is happening in South Africa IS racism by blacks with white victims.
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Feb '18 18:041 edit
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    The land that is now "Turkey" was originally inhabited by Caucasian peoples. The Turks invaded and displaced them. Thus I detect an inconsistency in your argument. Why are white people who advocate for the land they originally inhabited back fanatics, while for everyone else it's praiseworthy? It seems you are less concerned about land being returned to i ...[text shortened]... removed from Egypt and replaced by Copts), or you need to admit the whole thing is preposterous.
    I don't agree with race based land reform. I do believe we should acknowledge the first nations of all places openly in public. I believe in heavy taxation of wealthy landowners, not direct seizure of land.
  15. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Feb '18 18:07
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    Some white racist in Mississippi being obsessed with the legacy of apartheid South Africa or white minority Zimbabwe is irrelevant to the facts surrounding the consequences of land reform. The two are totally different issues.
    Princess Michael of the United Kingdom probably reads Amren:

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/22/meghan-markle-insult-queens-lunch-with-racially-insensitive-jewelry/
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