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  1. 08 Jan '16 21:47 / 1 edit
    What with all the hoop-la, does that make this classic now politically incorrect?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ksYL26lZE
    Does Joan Baez owe the black world an apology?
  2. 08 Jan '16 22:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    What with all the hoop-la, does that make this classic now politically incorrect?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ksYL26lZE
    Does Joan Baez owe the black world an apology?
    Does this make it easier?:

    Virgil Caine is the name, and I served on the Danville train
    'Till Stoneman's cavalry came and tore up the tracks again
    In the winter of '65, we were hungry, just barely alive
    By May the tenth, Richmond had fell, it's a time I remember, oh so well

    The night they drove old Dixie down, and the bells were ringing
    The night they drove old Dixie down, and the people were singin' they went
    La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la

    Back with my wife in Tennessee, when one day she called to me
    "Virgil, quick, come see, there goes Robert E Lee"
    Now I don't mind choppin' wood, and I don't care if the money's no good
    Ya take what ya need and ya leave the rest,
    But they should never have taken the very best

    The night they drove old Dixie down, and the bells were ringing
    The night they drove old Dixie down, and the people were singin' they went
    La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la,

    Like my father before me, I will work the land
    Like my brother above me, who took a rebel stand
    He was just eighteen, proud and brave, but a Yankee laid him in his grave
    I swear by the mud below my feet,
    You can't raise a Caine back up when he's in defeat

    The night they drove old Dixie down, and the bells were ringing,
    The night they drove old Dixie down, and all the people were singin', they went
    Na, la, na, la, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,

    The night they drove old Dixie down, and all the bells were ringing,
    The night they drove old Dixie down, and the people were singin', they went
    Na, la, na, la, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na

    end quote

    according to wikipedia this song (try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jREUrbGGrgM for the original and arguably better version recorded by The Band) evoked "the lost cause of the Confederacy" which see at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy.

    quote:



    The Legend of the Lost Cause began as mostly a literary expression of the despair of a bitter, defeated people over a lost identity. It was a landscape dotted with figures drawn mainly out of the past: the chivalric planter; the magnolia-scented Southern belle; the good, gray Confederate veteran, once a knight of the field and saddle; and obliging old Uncle Remus. All these, while quickly enveloped in a golden haze, became very real to the people of the South, who found the symbols useful in the reconstituting of their shattered civilization. They perpetuated the ideals of the Old South and brought a sense of comfort to the New.[2]

    The Lost Cause belief was founded upon several historically inaccurate elements. These include the claim that the Confederacy started the Civil War to defend states' rights rather than to preserve slavery, and the related claim that slavery was benevolent, rather than cruel.

    Historians, including Gaines Foster, generally agree that the Lost Cause narrative also "helped preserve white supremacy. Most scholars who have studied the white South's memory of the Civil War or the Old South conclude that both portrayed a past society in which whites were in charge and blacks faithful and subservient."[3] Supporters typically portray the Confederacy's cause as noble and its leadership as exemplars of old-fashioned chivalry and honor, defeated by the Union armies through numerical and industrial force that overwhelmed the South's superior military skill and courage. Proponents of the Lost Cause movement also condemned the Reconstruction that followed the Civil War, claiming that it had been a deliberate attempt by Northern politicians and speculators to destroy the traditional Southern way of life. In recent decades Lost Cause themes have been widely promoted by the Neo-Confederate movement in books and op-eds, and especially in one of the movement's magazines, the Southern Partisan. The Lost Cause theme has been a major element in defining gender roles in the white South, in terms of honor, tradition, and family roles.[4] The Lost Cause has been part of memorials and even religious attitudes.[5]

    unquote

    you're welcome

    Now the next challenge is to find Joan Baez's comments, if any, on the fact that she performed this song. Anyone?

    Edit: here's a lead:

    http://thewhitedsepulchre.blogspot.com/2009/06/meaning-of-night-they-drove-old-dixie.html
  3. 08 Jan '16 23:01
    Originally posted by JS357
    Does this make it easier?:

    Virgil Caine is the name, and I served on the Danville train
    'Till Stoneman's cavalry came and tore up the tracks again
    In the winter of '65, we were hungry, just barely alive
    By May the tenth, Richmond had fell, it's a time I remember, oh so well

    The night they drove old Dixie down, and the bells were ringing
    The night the ...[text shortened]... ad:

    http://thewhitedsepulchre.blogspot.com/2009/06/meaning-of-night-they-drove-old-dixie.html
    real purty but it doesn't answer my question
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 Jan '16 23:48
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    What with all the hoop-la, does that make this classic now politically incorrect?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ksYL26lZE
    Does Joan Baez owe the black world an apology?
    Why would she?:

    On the day in 1963, when Martin Luther King, Jr., stood on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial and spoke to what was the largest gathering of its kind to ever set foot in Washington, D.C., he was joined by Joan Baez, who began the morning with an old African-American spiritual tune called, "Oh Freedom."

    http://folkmusic.about.com/od/news/a/MLK_Folk.htm

    TNTDODD is essentially an anti-war song written in 1969 by a Canadian.
  5. 09 Jan '16 00:08
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Why would she?:

    On the day in 1963, when Martin Luther King, Jr., stood on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial and spoke to what was the largest gathering of its kind to ever set foot in Washington, D.C., he was joined by Joan Baez, who began the morning with an old African-American spiritual tune called, "Oh Freedom."

    http://folkmusic.about.com/od/news/a/MLK_Folk.htm

    TNTDODD is essentially an anti-war song written in 1969 by a Canadian.
    TNTDODD sounds pretty pro-south to me if you listen to the lyrics.
  6. 09 Jan '16 00:46
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    TNTDODD sounds pretty pro-south to me if you listen to the lyrics.
    It comments on the futility of war, particularly of the loser.
  7. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    09 Jan '16 00:50
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    TNTDODD sounds pretty pro-south to me if you listen to the lyrics.
    I don't see it as "pro-South"; I see it as a personal story of tragedy caused by a pointless war.

    This would surely be more in line with the thinking of Joan Baez in 1971 than would support for a defunct regime premised on the necessity of maintaining and expanding human slavery.
  8. 09 Jan '16 01:05
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    real purty but it doesn't answer my question
    Put your question another way: Do blacks or any spokesperson think she owes them an apology?

    From wikipedia: "She declined to play in any venues that were segregated, which meant that when she toured the Southern states she would only play at black colleges."

    I think that answers your question.
  9. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    09 Jan '16 05:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    What with all the hoop-la, does that make this classic now politically incorrect?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ksYL26lZE
    Does Joan Baez owe the black world an apology?
    This is nothing but trivia. No one owes anyone an apology, especially over a song written decades ago that was not designed to be historically accurate, it was only designed to rhyme.
  10. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    09 Jan '16 05:44
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    What with all the hoop-la, does that make this classic now politically incorrect?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ksYL26lZE
    Does Joan Baez owe the black world an apology?
    Here is Johnny Cash singing The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down

    YouTube