Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    27 Aug '15 17:53
    Originally posted by sh76
    Maybe try reading the entire sentence.

    Wood and No1 were talking about the era immediately following the American Revolution, not 2015.
    Wood and No1 were talking about the era immediately following the American Revolution, not 2015.

    That is in harmony with my answer to no1. Wood didn't have the benefit of the years since his writing, that no1 and the rest of us have now.
  2. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    57108
    27 Aug '15 17:54
    The problem with the GOP is that it's supported by complete nutters and it's full of people even the CIA called 'the crazies'.

    Seriously... I actually do hope Trump becomes president. Yes, it will be the end of the world, but at least I'll die laughing.
  3. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    27 Aug '15 18:00
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The problem with the GOP is that it's supported by complete nutters and it's full of people even the CIA called 'the crazies'.

    Seriously... I actually do hope Trump becomes president. Yes, it will be the end of the world, but at least I'll die laughing.
    Yes, it will be the end of the world, but at least I'll die laughing.

    Fortunately, predictions of the end of the world, is the left isn't elected, haven't been near accurate. 😀😀
  4. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    57108
    27 Aug '15 18:15
    Originally posted by normbenign
    [b]Yes, it will be the end of the world, but at least I'll die laughing.

    Fortunately, predictions of the end of the world, is the left isn't elected, haven't been near accurate. 😀😀[/b]
    Nothing to do with left and right, mate.
    It's to do with gung-ho stupidity.
  5. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10120
    27 Aug '15 18:235 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Of course, Washington was wealthy though he gained most of his wealth by marrying the richest widow in Virginia. But you also claimed he was "well educated" which he was not.

    Further, you claimed that the Revolution would have been impossible without the wealthy. This is rubbish. The Revolution started among the small farmers and tradesman of New England. They were the backbone of the Revolution, not a few wealthy individuals.
    So what was a "good" education in the 1700's? I'm sure Washington got a better education than most.

    Additionally, Washington was not the only Fouding Father. He had many well educated peers around him.

    How do you reckon ignorant men wrote the Declaration of Independence and Constitution? To think that these men were not educated is beyond ignorant. And without these documents, the Revolution probably would have devolved into tyranny. As it was, as soon as they declared their independence they turned right around and passed the Alien and Sedition Acts which were Unconstitutional. Thankfully, Jefferson was able to challenge these laws and by in large get rid of them. Today, the Alien and Sedition Acts would be comparable to Obama signing the NDAA that gives the government the right to lock up citizens on the basis of being suspected terrorists without due process, only, there is no knight in shinning armour like Jefferson to overturn them. In fact, FDR used some of the remaining provisions of the Alien and Sedition Acts to lock up innocent Japanese Americans during WW2.

    Disgusting.

    Try giving Mr. Wood a call. Maybe he can set you straight.
  6. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10120
    27 Aug '15 18:32
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Nobody, not even you, knows what "would have happened". We know what has happened, and it doesn't resemble either the original Union, nor the adopted Constitutional government. All of the warnings of the antifederalists have come true.
    The American Revolution was a perfect storm.

    They had a vast Ocean seperating the superior British forces.

    They had well educated and wealthy men supporting the Revolution.

    They had France to support them militarily and financially.

    Subtract any of these facts and it probably all goes to pot. As it was, it almost failed.
  7. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    27 Aug '15 18:33
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Nothing to do with left and right, mate.
    It's to do with gung-ho stupidity.
    I suspect that if the world ends, it will not be due to the election of the next US President, regardless of who that is.
  8. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10120
    27 Aug '15 18:34
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Nothing to do with left and right, mate.
    It's to do with gung-ho stupidity.
    Screw all that, I'm voting for Trump to get my new free Trump phone! 😵
  9. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10120
    27 Aug '15 18:35
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I suspect that if the world ends, it will not be due to the election of the next US President, regardless of who that is.
    Yep, cogs in a wheel.

    I prefer the term, "empty suit".
  10. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    27 Aug '15 18:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    The American Revolution was a perfect storm.

    They had a vast Ocean seperating the superior British forces.

    They had well educated and wealthy men supporting the Revolution.

    They had France to support them militarily and financially.

    Subtract any of these facts and it probably all goes to pot. As it was, it almost failed.
    All very true. It's amazing that in just a couple of decades this new nation wanted to fight the British again.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    40045
    27 Aug '15 18:411 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    The American Revolution was a perfect storm.

    They had a vast Ocean seperating the superior British forces.

    They had well educated and wealthy men supporting the Revolution.

    They had France to support them militarily and financially.

    Subtract any of these facts and it probably all goes to pot. As it was, it almost failed.
    The French joined the war after it had already turned in favor of the Americans at Saratoga.

    That "vast ocean" was completely controlled by the British, so I'm at a loss on how that favored the Americans.

    I don't think the Revolution was ever close to failure.

    Right wingers commonly think that the world revolves around what a small group of our "betters" do. In fact, the Revolution was a mass uprising; Tom Paine's Common Sense sold 500,000 copies among a population of between 2 and 3 million. The support of a few wealthy and educated individuals is not what caused or won the Revolution; the support of the People was.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    40045
    27 Aug '15 18:491 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Nobody, not even you, knows what "would have happened". We know what has happened, and it doesn't resemble either the original Union, nor the adopted Constitutional government. All of the warnings of the antifederalists have come true.
    You constantly claiming so doesn't make it so.

    A lot of what the Antifederalists wanted was later incorporated into the body politic, as Wood points out. But their vision overall was myopic. The type of nation they foresaw would never have developed into the power that the United States needed to be if it was to survive intact.
  13. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    27 Aug '15 20:18
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    You constantly claiming so doesn't make it so.

    A lot of what the Antifederalists wanted was later incorporated into the body politic, as Wood points out. But their vision overall was myopic. The type of nation they foresaw would never have developed into the power that the United States needed to be if it was to survive intact.
    It may never have become the power it became. And it's military involvement all over the planet might not be as it is.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    40045
    27 Aug '15 20:29
    Originally posted by normbenign
    It may never have become the power it became. And it's military involvement all over the planet might not be as it is.
    Probably not, but that is a matter of choice not an inevitable byproduct of our governmental system.

    It's a fairly safe bet that European military involvement on the North American continent in the 19th Century would have been substantially greater, however.
  15. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10120
    27 Aug '15 21:252 edits
    Originally posted by normbenign
    It may never have become the power it became. And it's military involvement all over the planet might not be as it is.
    World conquering war machines depend upon collectivism to be built and preserved.

    A limited government that the Founding Fathers established could never have produced the world police with troops in over 70 countries around the world that we see today It took Progressives like Wison and FDR to subvert the system into a war machine.
Back to Top