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  1. 03 Dec '13 16:32
    You probably have never hear of Thomas Ball, so here is a link so you can read up on him:

    http://freekeene.com/2011/06/16/thomas-james-ball-self-immolated-in-protest-of-the-justice-system/

    I found out about him by reading the book "Men on Strike" by Helen Smith, PhD. I find what she writes to be spot on and agree with her that feminism isn't about women's rights but women domination. In this post feminist world Men need to stand up for their rights.

    From my perspective the two areas that are in most need of change are the courts when it comes to divorce and education.

    According to Men on Strike in 2010 38,364 killed themselves in the US of which 30,277 were men. This is quite a startling statistic and I've never seen, nor doe it seem anyone cares.

    Thomas Ball is only one man who committed suicide and it is because US court system is stacked against men.
  2. 03 Dec '13 16:37
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You probably have never hear of Thomas Ball, so here is a link so you can read up on him:

    http://freekeene.com/2011/06/16/thomas-james-ball-self-immolated-in-protest-of-the-justice-system/

    I found out about him by reading the book "Men on Strike" by Helen Smith, PhD. I find what she writes to be spot on and agree with her that feminism isn't about wome ...[text shortened]... is only one man who committed suicide and it is because US court system is stacked against men.
    You think the rights of men have been eroded?
  3. 03 Dec '13 16:59
    I think there are some real issues like men legally have more obligations as they must register for the draft and women do not. Men are far more likely to be charged with certain crimes like statutory rape. There is evidence that universities have sexist admission policies as women feel comfortable with 55/45 F/M admission split when men seem at least equally capable in the work place. Women find it easier to get days off for child birth than men.
    I also think there are some poor arguments that some people may feel persuasive as in other contexts people believe they show evidence of discrimination: number of men in jail, number of men on death row, percentage of murders who receive death sentence.
  4. 03 Dec '13 17:05
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You probably have never hear of Thomas Ball, so here is a link so you can read up on him:

    http://freekeene.com/2011/06/16/thomas-james-ball-self-immolated-in-protest-of-the-justice-system/

    I found out about him by reading the book "Men on Strike" by Helen Smith, PhD. I find what she writes to be spot on and agree with her that feminism isn't about wome ...[text shortened]... is only one man who committed suicide and it is because US court system is stacked against men.
    "feminism isn't about women's rights but women domination."
    yeh, saying that is just like saying martin luther king didn't ask for equality, he actually wanted black supremacy.


    i don't care what the term has been perverted into by some few, vocal feminazis. the majority of feminists only want for men and women to be treated equally. that majority doesn't identify itself as "feminists", it doesn't identify itself as advocating for women's rights. it doesn't constantly yell on the forums.



    what your source didn't mention related to suicides:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide
    Many researchers have attempted to find explanations for why gender is such a significant indicator for suicide. One common explanation relies on the social constructions of hegemonic masculinity and femininity. In a review of the literature on gender and suicide, male suicide rates were explained in terms of traditional gender roles. Male gender roles tend to emphasize greater levels of strength, independence, and risk-taking behavior.[8] Reinforcement of this gender role often prevents males from seeking help for suicidal feelings and depression.

    why do more women attempt suicide? is it because of how dominating they are in society?
    in kazakhstan in 2005 8 women per 100k people committed suicide compared to 45 males. are the males being oppressed by females there too?



    yes, the justice system is far from perfect. yes, in order to protect women that are victimized, sometimes a male has to suffer inconvenience. we call that the justice system. you know who else suffers inconveniences? wrongly convicted death rowers and lifers. every system has flaws. propose something specific, rather than complain that the poor males are being oppressed.
  5. 03 Dec '13 17:07
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I think there are some real issues like men legally have more obligations as they must register for the draft and women do not. Men are far more likely to be charged with certain crimes like statutory rape. There is evidence that universities have sexist admission policies as women feel comfortable with 55/45 F/M admission split when men seem at least ...[text shortened]... er of men in jail, number of men on death row, percentage of murders who receive death sentence.
    Women find it easier to get days off for child birth than men.

    found this hilarious. nitpicking aside, i think you meant paternity/maternity leave.
  6. 03 Dec '13 17:17
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Women find it easier to get days off for child birth than men.

    found this hilarious. nitpicking aside, i think you meant paternity/maternity leave.
    Well, I am always glad when someone finds something amusing even if I did not mean it that way. I did mean that society views and grants maternity/ paternity leave in different ways.
  7. 03 Dec '13 17:19
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I think there are some real issues like men legally have more obligations as they must register for the draft and women do not. Men are far more likely to be charged with certain crimes like statutory rape. There is evidence that universities have sexist admission policies as women feel comfortable with 55/45 F/M admission split when men seem at least ...[text shortened]... er of men in jail, number of men on death row, percentage of murders who receive death sentence.
    Yes and there are plenty of feminists who would agree with a lot of those issues. A lot of those are the flipside of one of the primary issues that feminists fight against which is the traditional gender roles in our society.
  8. 03 Dec '13 17:23
    Originally posted by quackquack
    Well, I am always glad when someone finds something amusing even if I did not mean it that way. I did mean that society views and grants maternity/ paternity leave in different ways.
    In the US there is the FMLA act which applies to both men and women. This allows either (or both) parents to take up to 12 weeks off after the birth of a child without losing their job - although the company is under no requirement to pay you during that time.

    The problem is that there are societal norms that frown on men leaving work for that time and not only that, since it's unpaid leave if the wife is also taking that time off work it's unlikely that they can afford being without both salaries during that time.
  9. 03 Dec '13 17:35
    Originally posted by quackquack
    Well, I am always glad when someone finds something amusing even if I did not mean it that way. I did mean that society views and grants maternity/ paternity leave in different ways.
    returning to talking seriously, there are still gender roles assigned, which raise some minor equality questions. do you think the fact that men are sometimes done injustices in some cases can be compared to the constant objectification and injustice, and discrimination women face?

    women still do not get equal pay.
    women still have to go in packs to the bathroom out of fear of rape.
    women still have a hard time getting in a field of work (speaking from experience, as a programmer, the field is rife with misogyny)
    women still receive death threats if they dare speak up against mysoginy.


    yes, the above doesn't warrant the feminazis to claim that men are inferior animals, destined to be rules by females, and how the world would be a better place if women would be in charge like the men were (and still are).
    however, in an ER, who is going to get treated first? the one with a splinter in his pinky or the one bleeding from a gunshot?

    the male screaming for his rights is the one with the splinter, in any country in the world.
  10. 03 Dec '13 17:41
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    You think the rights of men have been eroded?
    Men's rights have eroded? I wouldn't describe it quite like that, but in essence yes. Women have the upper hand.

    If there is a divorce who generally ends up in a better situation when it comes to settlement, the man or the woman? Who gets the kids? Who gets stuck sending checks every month and gets kicked out of the house?
  11. 03 Dec '13 17:52
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You probably have never hear of Thomas Ball, so here is a link so you can read up on him:

    http://freekeene.com/2011/06/16/thomas-james-ball-self-immolated-in-protest-of-the-justice-system/

    I found out about him by reading the book "Men on Strike" by Helen Smith, PhD. I find what she writes to be spot on and agree with her that feminism isn't about wome ...[text shortened]... is only one man who committed suicide and it is because US court system is stacked against men.
    let's also take a moment to see who this thomas ball is. taken from the link you provided.


    "Thomas was arrested. He was found not guilty of simple assault in Cheshire Superior Court, despite slapping his daughter multiple times and causing bleeding."

    "Thomas figured he’d get to see his kids again after the not guilty. He figured wrong. The court continued to press for counseling at Monadnock Family Services (MFS) prior to allowing Thomas unsupervised visits with his kids"
    counseling after hitting your child enough to make here bleed? a 4 year old? THE INJUSTICE!!!!


    following are a number of biased statements the author of the article is making, of which i am paraphrasing:
    -he refused to seek counseling just because it was at the mfc. he claimed it was because they had a personal vendetta against him. (because he is the victim here). when you're a parent you let your pride at the door and you do what has to be done for the good of your children.
    -he got fired and couldn't pay child support so he was sent to jail. yes, it might have been handled better, but still no evidence of the court system being biased against men.
    -the author is complaining about the devious mfc asking his wife to call the police after he beat his child, stating that had she not done that, the family might still be together. this is so fukin outrageous i can't see straight. yes, don't call the police on the child beater, because he "just lost control". you only should call the police on the second, or third or fourth beating. after you are sure that he is a psychopath actually, not a child beater that loses control.
    -picketing courthouses. yes, that would be much better than actually searching for a job, or trying to arrange something with his wife. of course the amount "owed" is gonna grow. your child needs to eat, it's not his problem you got fired, it's yours.





    my short version: yes, his story might have been handled better, yes maybe with extreme leniency, he is not a monster. yet he is hardly a worthy poster boy of the "oh my god, the evil females are taking away our rights, let's fight back" movement(gonna trademark this name, it is very catchy)
  12. 03 Dec '13 18:05
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You probably have never hear of Thomas Ball, so here is a link so you can read up on him:

    http://freekeene.com/2011/06/16/thomas-james-ball-self-immolated-in-protest-of-the-justice-system/

    I found out about him by reading the book "Men on Strike" by Helen Smith, PhD. I find what she writes to be spot on and agree with her that feminism isn't about wome ...[text shortened]... is only one man who committed suicide and it is because US court system is stacked against men.
    from his last statement:

    "The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. [...] I could have made a phone call or two and borrowed the money. But I am done being bullied for being a man [...]
    While putting my four year old daughter to bed, she began licking my hand. After giving her three verbal warnings I slapped her.
    [...]
    After six months of me not lifting a finger to save this marriage, she filed for divorce."


    there is more, but it is unbearable to read it further. we have here a man who would slap a 4 year old for licking his arm, a man who refused to swallow his pride on the numerous occasions presented to him and finally a man who decided he would rather kill himself publicly and scar his children rather than "be bullied by the man".

    if he would be declared clinically insane, i would have a modicum of sympathy for him. otherwise, i will feel outraged for about 10 minutes after i press the "post" button and forget him forever in the next 10. he doesn't deserve his children. he is a coward.
  13. 03 Dec '13 18:05
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    returning to talking seriously, there are still gender roles assigned, which raise some minor equality questions. do you think the fact that men are sometimes done injustices in some cases can be compared to the constant objectification and injustice, and discrimination women face?

    women still do not get equal pay.
    women still have to go in packs to ...[text shortened]...

    the male screaming for his rights is the one with the splinter, in any country in the world.
    I am not convinced at all by your issues.

    Difference in salary can be explained by many things including who misses more work for maternity/ paternity leave, who stays home when kids are sick, who is willing to do extra things that aren't in the job description like lift heavy things in an office, who can stay late, who picks jobs for salary reasons or instead sacrifices salary for schedule flexibility or other factors. Women who fit stereotypical roles like primary caretaker have to understand that if the demands of that responsibility effect there job performance they simply are not do the same job as non primary caretakers (often men). Men with the same scholastic credentials may actually be better candidates as
    universities continually seem to favor women while the work place may not. At any rate if you feel you are the victim of discrimination, our society allows you to bring a cause of action.

    Unfortunately all people men and women can be attacked. We should all be careful. Women often go to the bathroom in packs to gossip (and often allow the men to stay and pick up the tab another anti-male sexist factor that routinely does on in our society).

    If you really receive death threats for complaining about misogyny, you probably have a valuable cause of action. Please exercise your rights and stop a real wrong. It makes more sense than complaining about sexism and doing nothing.
  14. 03 Dec '13 18:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    let's also take a moment to see who this thomas ball is. taken from the link you provided.


    "Thomas was arrested. He was found not guilty of simple assault in Cheshire Superior Court, despite slapping his daughter multiple times and causing bleeding."

    "Thomas figured he’d get to see his kids again after the not guilty. He figured wrong. The court c ...[text shortened]... aking away our rights, let's fight back" movement(gonna trademark this name, it is very catchy)
    He is simply a guy who realized that things are stacked against him and took his own life. Nobody cares, so I brought attention to his plea.

    It cost him his life, so I think it's worthy of mention.
  15. 04 Dec '13 01:21 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Men's rights have eroded? I wouldn't describe it quite like that, but in essence yes. Women have the upper hand.

    If there is a divorce who generally ends up in a better situation when it comes to settlement, the man or the woman? Who gets the kids? Who gets stuck sending checks every month and gets kicked out of the house?
    I have been in a divorce situation. I paid child support and alimony. My lawyer was a woman; my ex-wife’s lawyer was a woman; the judge was a woman. The only point of issue to the judge was the fact that I was voluntarily paying more child support than mandated by state law. It was difficult to pay off the indebtedness that was eventually required—but I did.

    What is this guy’s ultimate message to his kids? I killed myself because of you? Taking care of you was too much of a burden? I’m sorry that I hit you and split your lip, but I’m the real victim here?

    In the end, it seems that he couldn’t continue his own soap opera—that the soap opera became too heavy to bear. Too bad.

    But that seems to be a feature of soap opera: to blame everyone else for your own failings—while leaning heavily on the minor keys.

    EDIT: It's possible, of course, that I am mis-judging Mr. Ball. And he is dead. But I do judge any who would use such a case to further the "righteousness" of their own soap opera--without at all knowing if that is the case here (I will assume not). But my comments about the soap opera stand.