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  1. Standard member vivify
    rain
    26 Mar '15 18:16
    Any search I do on this topic only gives results for articles that either try to prove or dispute the fact that women make less.

    My question is WHY do women make less? I can't find a straight answer on this no matter where I look.
  2. 26 Mar '15 18:30
    To answer this question, ask yourself: what determines someone's wage? The answer to this question is that it is the result of a complex interplay between societal norms, relative power as well as productivity. Why do women make less? Mostly because they are valued less. Another factor could be that men are more assertive in demanding a higher wage for the same job.
  3. 26 Mar '15 18:55
    Originally posted by vivify
    Any search I do on this topic only gives results for articles that either try to prove or dispute the fact that women make less.

    My question is WHY do women make less? I can't find a straight answer on this no matter where I look.
    That question is a Rorschach test of whoever responds to it.
  4. Standard member vivify
    rain
    26 Mar '15 19:54
    Originally posted by JS357
    That question is a Rorschach test of whoever responds to it.
    Great point. Maybe that's why I can't get a straight answer anywhere else.

    However, this is the same reason why the wage gap between men and women will take a LONG time to close. People don't want to attempt to answer this question head on.
  5. 26 Mar '15 21:55 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    Great point. Maybe that's why I can't get a straight answer anywhere else.

    However, this is the same reason why the wage gap between men and women will take a LONG time to close. People don't want to attempt to answer this question head on.
    "People don't want to attempt to answer this question head on."
    --Vivify

    False. Some people have done their best 'to answer this question head on."
    What typically happens, however, is that when someone dislikes the answer
    because it does not fit into one's ideological framework (such as a man who
    loathes everything associated with 'feminism' ), that person just ignores or
    dismisses it and then proceeds as though no answer had ever been given.
  6. Standard member vivify
    rain
    26 Mar '15 22:30
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "People don't want to attempt to answer this question head on."
    --Vivify

    False. Some people have done their best 'to answer this question head on."
    What typically happens, however, is that when someone dislikes the answer
    because it does not fit into one's ideological framework (such as a man who
    loathes everything associated with 'feminism' ), th ...[text shortened]... person just ignores or
    dismisses it and then proceeds as though no answer had ever been given.
    Can you give some examples? Maybe some sound research that people dislike merely because of their ideology?
  7. 26 Mar '15 22:45
    Originally posted by vivify
    Any search I do on this topic only gives results for articles that either try to prove or dispute the fact that women make less.

    My question is WHY do women make less? I can't find a straight answer on this no matter where I look.
    Every woman in my profession makes the exact same amount of money as I make.

    There are a great many women that make more money than this man.
  8. Standard member vivify
    rain
    26 Mar '15 22:52
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Every woman in my profession makes the exact same amount of money as I make.

    There are a great many women that make more money than this man.
    I also wonder what types of professions are factored in. For example, do they factor in professional sports? Because if so, that taints the income gap discussion since men's sports is simply more popular with the public, and therefore makes more money to pay male players than women's sports do.
  9. 26 Mar '15 23:22
    Originally posted by vivify
    Great point. Maybe that's why I can't get a straight answer anywhere else.

    However, this is the same reason why the wage gap between men and women will take a LONG time to close. People don't want to attempt to answer this question head on.
    If there are indeed numerous reasons, then numerous remedies are needed. It becomes less important to know THE reason. And as remedies are put in place (or occur due to societal changes) then the sticking points will be more obvious.

    One example is that more women are entering and graduating from college. This is a very coarse-grained statistic. For example, what majors are men and women choosing?

    http://archive.aacu.org/ocww/volume39_1/feature.cfm?section=1

    "Women are especially underrepresented in most science, technology, engineering and mathematics majors (or STEM, as these fields are commonly called). For example, in 2007, women earned 17 percent of bachelor’s degrees in engineering, compared to 79 percent of bachelor’s degrees in education (Planty et al. 2009). Within STEM fields, women’s underrepresentation is particularly severe in majors like computer science, physics, and engineering—fields that include better-paying jobs after graduation, even compared to other mathematically demanding fields. In 2009, the average starting salary for bachelor’s degree recipients in mechanical engineering was $59,000, compared to $50,000 for bachelor’s degree recipients in economics (National Association of Colleges and Employers 2009). "

    Also, what non-paid time commitments are work, such as taking a child to the doctor and doing laundry. How much time do working women spend on these activities instead of doing paid work?

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/Women_in_America.pdf

    "Working women spend their days somewhat differently than do working men. In 2009, on the days that
    they worked, employed married women age 25–54 spent less time in labor market work and work-
    related activities than did employed married men in the same age group—7 hours and 40 minutes,
    compared to about 8 hours and 50 minutes. However, these employed wives spent about 40 minutes
    more time than did their male counterparts doing household activities such as cooking, housework, and
    household management. "

    For hourly workers paid per hour worked, this is part of the disparity. For professionals, it might have some effect on raises and promotions.
  10. 26 Mar '15 23:58
    I think there needs to be a remedy for people like me. I don't make enough and I shouldn't feel obligated to help someone who makes more than me make even more money just because I am the wrong gender.
  11. Standard member vivify
    rain
    27 Mar '15 00:02
    Originally posted by JS357
    If there are indeed numerous reasons, then numerous remedies are needed. It becomes less important to know THE reason. And as remedies are put in place (or occur due to societal changes) then the sticking points will be more obvious.

    One example is that more women are entering and graduating from college. This is a very coarse-grained statistic. For example ...[text shortened]... is part of the disparity. For professionals, it might have some effect on raises and promotions.
    Great post. This is a really good step in the direction toward some answers.
  12. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    27 Mar '15 03:13 / 1 edit
    Not answering your question, but perhaps contributing to the discussion:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/03/25/male-nurse-gender-pay-gap-women-nursing/70419356/

    The nursing workforce is roughly 90-10 women-men, and yet male nurses make on average $5000 (with a range of about $4000 to over $15000) more per year than female nurses do. Go figure.
  13. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    27 Mar '15 03:16
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I think there needs to be a remedy for people like me. I don't make enough and I shouldn't feel obligated to help someone who makes more than me make even more money just because I am the wrong gender.
    What happened to your saying that women in your profession make "exactly" the same amount as you do?
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    27 Mar '15 03:49
    Originally posted by vivify
    Any search I do on this topic only gives results for articles that either try to prove or dispute the fact that women make less.

    My question is WHY do women make less? I can't find a straight answer on this no matter where I look.
    Probably due to a combination that includes personal choice of family over career and less ambition at the median.

    If you mean to ask whether it is because of invidious discrimination, then I answer that I doubt it.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/01/no-women-don-t-make-less-money-than-men.html
  15. 27 Mar '15 04:27
    Originally posted by sh76
    Probably due to a combination that includes personal choice of family over career and less ambition at the median.

    If you mean to ask whether it is because of invidious discrimination, then I answer that I doubt it.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-e ...[text shortened]...

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/01/no-women-don-t-make-less-money-than-men.html
    Your first cite says. "To Read the Full Story, Subscribe or Log In "

    Your second cite says, "The Department of Labor’s Time Use Survey, for example, finds that the average full-time working man spends 8.14 hours a day on the job, compared to 7.75 hours for the full-time working woman.

    This is offset by the fact that women spend more time doing unpaid work than men do. See my cite, above.

    Your third cite relates to my cite on how college majors are distributed by gender.

    This has nothing to do with the fact that there is a lack of parity. Some of the reasons for that lack may be as stated, and it may in some cases mean that the difference is equitable (fair) but that is what this thread should be about. for example, the second and third http titles are simply wrong. The first being unintelligible.