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Debates Forum

  1. 30 Oct '13 01:33 / 1 edit
    Why is it that when Americans are told that they are being spied on by the federal government that Obama does not make a peep. However, once we are told that Obama is also spying on "allies" around the world, he now says he wants to "reform" the NSA?
  2. 30 Oct '13 02:18
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is it that when Americans are told that they are being spied on by the federal government that Obama does not make a peep. However, once we are told that Obama is also spying on "allies" around the world, he now says he wants to "reform" the NSA?
    Obama says that the only people that do not want to disclose the truth have something to hide. Is that why he sealed his records from the get go?
  3. 30 Oct '13 09:42 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is it that when Americans are told that they are being spied on by the federal government that Obama does not make a peep. However, once we are told that Obama is also spying on "allies" around the world, he now says he wants to "reform" the NSA?
    Perhaps its because America is within his jurisdiction, Angela Merkels mobile phone is not! But lets look at the issue here, either Mr. Obama is lying when he said he was unaware of the surveillance, or he really is unaware of some of the NSA's surveillance programs. I suggest the latter is more probable. The rhetoric coming from Alexander is the usual bluster and hypocrisy. It amounts to,

    1.everyone does it therefore its acceptable
    2.its illegal for everyone else except the government
  4. 30 Oct '13 12:05 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Perhaps its because America is within his jurisdiction, Angela Merkels mobile phone is not! But lets look at the issue here, either Mr. Obama is lying when he said he was unaware of the surveillance, or he really is unaware of some of the NSA's surveillance programs. I suggest the latter is more probable. The rhetoric coming from Alexander is the ...[text shortened]... everyone does it therefore its acceptable
    2.its illegal for everyone else except the government
    Many would argue that unreasonable search and seizure is not within the presidents jurisdiction, including myself.

    That aside, why is spying on the "innocent" any more or less desirable abroad? Do you think I want to be spied on anymore than some big wig in another country? Am I any more a more valid target?

    I would argue that spying on powerful figures abroad would yield better intelligence that spying on little old Whodey. We gotta keep our world safe, don't ya know.
  5. 30 Oct '13 12:27 / 6 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    Many would argue that unreasonable search and seizure is not within the presidents jurisdiction, including myself.

    That aside, why is spying on the "innocent" any more or less desirable abroad? Do you think I want to be spied on anymore than some big wig in another country? Am I any more a more valid target?

    I would argue that spying on powerful figu ...[text shortened]... ter intelligence that spying on little old Whodey. We gotta keep our world safe, don't ya know.
    To what extent the American government are spying on people is a matter of conjecture. They will of course argue that its in the interests of security to do so, which to you and I presents a moral dilemma, one the one hand to respect the privacy of others and on the other to safeguard home security. Of course this argument fails, for Mrs Merkel provides absolutely no threat to the United States government and I suspect she was tracked because of economic interests, although admittedly this is conjecture on my part, but its at least plausible given the state of the Eurozone. Its simply unrealistic to think that governments do not give themselves special powers which essentially operate outside the law, they have always done so.

    The arguments presented by Alexander are more bull than a herd of Texan Longhorns, first of all he denies it and then he says that everybody does it!

    What in fact happens is that the government acts like a fishing trawler, except they are fishing for data, they are looking for a specific species but target the servers. They must trawl through the data of millions of other fish to get the ones they are looking for.

    What Edward Snowden has done is to expose the reality that they are all in it up to their necks! Governments spying on their own citizens.
  6. 31 Oct '13 03:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    To what extent the American government are spying on people is a matter of conjecture. They will of course argue that its in the interests of security to do so, which to you and I presents a moral dilemma, one the one hand to respect the privacy of others and on the other to safeguard home security. Of course this argument fails, for Mrs Merkel pro ...[text shortened]... he reality that they are all in it up to their necks! Governments spying on their own citizens.
    The bottom line is that Obama is saying that he wishes to curb the NSA when it comes to spying on allies abroad because he "trusts" them but does not feel the same about law abiding citizens that put his fat arse in the White House.

    He needs to go whine about how evil insurance companies are dumping coverage because of his wonderful health care plan instead of this insanity.
  7. 31 Oct '13 09:04
    Originally posted by whodey
    The bottom line is that Obama is saying that he wishes to curb the NSA when it comes to spying on allies abroad because he "trusts" them but does not feel the same about law abiding citizens that put his fat arse in the White House.

    He needs to go whine about how evil insurance companies are dumping coverage because of his wonderful health care plan instead of this insanity.
    Well lets see, how many of your own elected presidents have you assassinated? How much antipathy towards the duly appointed and democratically elected federal government of the United states do people feel? How many home grown terrorists have you managed to grow fuelled by moral issues in recent times?

    I would say that given the dynamics the President has much more to fear from his own than he does from enemy combatants, don't you?

    After listening to the rhetoric of lies from the head of NSA and learning of the UK prime-minters veiled threats to curb freedom of speech in the British press after The Guardians revelations its clear that the governments really are up to their necks in it and the Orwellian vision has come absolutely true.

    The extent of the spying, the collusion of European secret service agencies with NSA against their own citizens, the extent to which politicians know or don't know are all secondary to what will actually be done about it and the answer is nothing, politicians will do what they always do, talk about doing something, reviewing this or monitoring that, reforming this or outlining that and everything remains essentially the same.

    I suspect the Presidents attempt to bring the United states into the 21st century with universal health care (after a fashion) will prove to be a positive legacy, you can do nothing about it whodey, simply suck it up and get on with your life.
  8. 31 Oct '13 13:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Well lets see, how many of your own elected presidents have you assassinated? How much antipathy towards the duly appointed and democratically elected federal government of the United states do people feel? How many home grown terrorists have you managed to grow fuelled by moral issues in recent times?

    I would say that given the dynamics the Pre ...[text shortened]... ositive legacy, you can do nothing about it whodey, simply suck it up and get on with your life.
    I guess you are right. The more they impose themselves on us the more they will have to fear us. I guess if I were in their shoes I would be pretty scared as well. How would it be to be elected to the highest office knowing that at the end of your term you will be one of the most hated men on the face of the planet?

    Just out of curiosity, if and when it comes to them implanting things in us to track us and keep tabs on us, especially if it helps keep health care costs down and "saves" lives, you will take the mark Robbie?
  9. 31 Oct '13 14:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is it that when Americans are told that they are being spied on by the federal government that Obama does not make a peep. However, once we are told that Obama is also spying on "allies" around the world, he now says he wants to "reform" the NSA?
    Obama did make a peep.
  10. 31 Oct '13 14:05 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    I guess you are right. The more they impose themselves on us the more they will have to fear us. I guess if I were in their shoes I would be pretty scared as well. How would it be to be elected to the highest office knowing that at the end of your term you will be one of the most hated men on the face of the planet?

    Just out of curiosity, if and when it ...[text shortened]... cially if it helps keep health care costs down and "saves" lives, you will take the mark Robbie?
    I think you are becoming emotional Whodey, Mr. Obama is not hated, if his ACA works out, which it probably will, for the betterment of American citizens, he will have made a valuable contribution. He cannot possibly be more hated than George Bush. I suspect that what people expected of Mr. Obama and what he was actually able to deliver because of constraints placed upon him by those in opposition are two different things. I read a biography of Mr. Obama, it was remotely interesting but hes not a very interesting guy, essentially an academic that got into politics, but he's certainly not a bad man and anyway, who else is there?
  11. 31 Oct '13 14:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I think you are becoming emotional Whodey, Mr. Obama is not hated, if his ACA works out, which it probably will, for the betterment of American citizens, he will have made a valuable contribution. He cannot possibly be more hated than George Bush. I suspect that what people expected of Mr. Obama and what he was actually able to deliver because of constraints placed upon him by those in opposition are two different things.
    Not hated? He will have to have security for himself and for his family for the rest of his life Robbie. His life will be lived behind bullet proof glass.

    We know that Saddam had a contract on Bush Senior, and after Reagan attacked Libya they came after Oliver North etc.

    Now as Americans at home are seeing the deterioration of their freedoms and quality of life, the government has turned its attention to those at home. They will have to increasingly do so and worry more and more.

    To say that Obama is not hated at home is just nutty. If not, why does Big Brother feel the need to monitor them 24/7?

    And lastly, answer the question. Will you take the mark?
  12. 31 Oct '13 14:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Not hated? He will have to have security for himself and for his family for the rest of his life Robbie. His life will be lived behind bullet proof glass.

    We know that Saddam had a contract on Bush Senior, and after Reagan attacked Libya they came after Oliver North etc.

    Now as Americans at home are seeing the deterioration of their freedoms and quali ...[text shortened]... feel the need to monitor them 24/7?

    And lastly, answer the question. Will you take the mark?
    LOL, now you are falling into fiction whodey! Reagan killed Gaddafis sister in that attack on Tripoli, he was a murderer. Deterioration of your freedoms? because you are asked to buy into a universal healthcare program, flip sake whodey, its not like you are a Kashmiri and subject to government troops patrolling the streets with tanks? How many army check points did you cross to get to work today Whodey? No one is implanting any microchips in anyone! I don't know what material you have been feeding your mind on, but its making you bat crazy! President Kennedy stated that the people and the government have always worked hand in had together in the United states, I suggest you embrace the concept, the Bible states that the government is there for your protection! Its not your enemy whodey.
  13. 31 Oct '13 14:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    LOL, now you are falling into fiction whodey! Reagan killed Gaddafis sister in that attack on Tripoli, he was a murderer. Deterioration of your freedoms? because you are asked to buy into a universal healthcare program, flip sake whodey, its not like you are a Kashmiri and subject to government troops patrolling the streets with tanks? How many ar ...[text shortened]... e! I don't know what material you have been feeding your mind on, but its making you bat crazy!
    And Obama has killed no one?

    I think you will find that Obama's victims had mothers, daughters, sons etc.

    As far as health care, it is now mandatory for me to purchase it. This is a deterioration of my freedoms no matter how you wish to decorate it. Laws by their nature decrease or freedoms. The government passed over 40,000 new laws and regulations last year.

    As for my question, why not answer it Robbie? Would you take the mark?
  14. 31 Oct '13 14:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    And Obama has killed no one?

    I think you will find that Obama's victims had mothers, daughters, sons etc.
    Yes Mr Obama is indirectly responsible for murder as well, i do not deny it nor will attempt to justify it, its a dirty business.
  15. 31 Oct '13 14:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Yes Mr Obama is indirectly responsible for murder as well, i do not deny it.
    So what exactly are you arguing Robbie?

    The more poo you scatter around the more comes your way.

    As I said, the more these people impose themselves on us and the world the more they have to fear.