Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    09 Nov '16 09:33
    Originally posted by jimmac
    Anyone that ever believed that that would happen, deserves trump as president.
    I'm always amazed at how acceptable people actually find it when politicians make outlandish claims during the election campaign that will obviously never make it to reality.

    Happens here in The Netherlands as well. I'm still waiting for the 1000 euros the winning right wing party promised all of us working Dutch people during the campaign. But when talking about this to other people everybody seems perfectly fine accepting this was never going to happen. Even though it was a serious promise.
  2. Cape Town
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    09 Nov '16 09:51
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    I'm always amazed at how acceptable people actually find it when politicians make outlandish claims during the election campaign that will obviously never make it to reality.

    Happens here in The Netherlands as well. I'm still waiting for the 1000 euros the winning right wing party promised all of us working Dutch people during the campaign. But wh ...[text shortened]... s perfectly fine accepting this was never going to happen. Even though it was a serious promise.
    Watching Brexit politicians deny having made certain claims was fun. The problem with the new Trump reality tv is that it is actually reality that affects us all and not some contestants on an island somewhere.
  3. Unknown Territories
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    09 Nov '16 09:52
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The polls didn't lie - people lied to the pollsters. In Europe we've seen similar things with polls underestimating the share of racist parties because people are ashamed about being racist scumbags.
    Huh.
    That, perhaps.
    OR more likely: the pollsters lied in the first place.
  4. Unknown Territories
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    09 Nov '16 09:53
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Watching Brexit politicians deny having made certain claims was fun. The problem with the new Trump reality tv is that it is actually reality that affects us all and not some contestants on an island somewhere.
    BruH.
    Need a hug?
  5. Joined
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    09 Nov '16 10:04
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Watching Brexit politicians deny having made certain claims was fun. The problem with the new Trump reality tv is that it is actually reality that affects us all and not some contestants on an island somewhere.
    Watching Brexit politicians like Boris Johnson refusing to take responsibility for what they fought for after their victory and essentially fleeing the ship was also pretty damn amusing.

    Perhaps Trump is right now frantically trying to find a way out of this presidency job he won but never wanted.
  6. Cape Town
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    09 Nov '16 10:05
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    BruH.
    Need a hug?
    Not from a flat earther or a Trump supporter. My plan is to go back to learning Chinese as China will rule the world in the next few years.
  7. Cape Town
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    09 Nov '16 10:07
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Perhaps Trump is right now frantically trying to find a way out of this presidency job he won but never wanted.
    I know enough African leaders to know that Trump will ride it for all its worth, country be damned. My concern is not so much Trump but the people who will take advantage of him.
  8. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Nov '16 10:15
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    it was actually the liberal DNC elites that put Mr. Trump into the Whitehouse by nominating a candidate simply because it was her turn. Mr. Sanders would have been a much better proposition.

    And so Democratic leaders made Hillary their candidate even though they knew about her closeness to the banks, her fondness for war, and her unique vulnerabi ...[text shortened]... /www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-white-house-hillary-clinton-liberals
    http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2016-11-09/americal-liberals-unleashed-the-trump-monster/

    ...The reason Trump is heading to the Oval Office is because the Democratic party rigged the primaries to ensure that a candidate who could have beaten Trump, Bernie Sanders, did not get on the ticket. You want to blame someone, blame Clinton and the rotten-to-the-core Democratic party leadership.

    ...Blame lies squarely too with Barack Obama, the great black hope who spent eight years proving how wedded he was to neoliberal orthodoxy at home and a neoconservative agenda abroad. While liberals praised him to the heavens, he poured the last US treasure into propping up a failed banking system, bankrupting the country to fill the pockets of a tiny, already fabulously wealthy elite. The plutocrats then recycled vast sums to lobbyists and representatives in Congress to buy control there and make sure the voice of ordinary Americans counted for even less than it did before.

    Obama also continued the futile “war on terror”, turning the world into one giant battlefield that made every day a payday for the arms industry. The US has been dropping bombs on jihadists and civilians alike, while supplying the very same jihadists with arms to kill yet more civilians.
    ...

    ...real progressives are as frustrated and angry about the status quo as are the poor and vulnerable who turned to Trump. And they had no choice but to vote for Trump because there was no one aside from him in the presidential race articulating anything that approximated the truth.

    Sanders was ousted by Clinton and her corrupt coterie. Jill Stein of the Greens was made invisible by a corrupt electoral system. It was either vote for Clinton and the putrid status quo, or vote for Trump and a possibility for change.

    Yes, Trump is very bad. He is as much a product of the plutocracy that is now America as Clinton. He, like Clinton, will do nothing to fix the most important issue facing humankind: runaway climate change. He is a climate denier, she is a climate evader.

    But unlike Clinton, Trump understood the rising popular anger at the “system”, and he was articulate enough to express it – all it took was a howl of pain.

    Trump isn’t the antithesis of liberal America. You liberals created him. You unleashed this monster. It is you in the mirror. You stayed silent, you took no stand while your country was stolen from you. In fact, you did worse: you enthusiastically voted time after time for those who did the stealing.
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    09 Nov '16 10:24
    Originally posted by finnegan
    http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2016-11-09/americal-liberals-unleashed-the-trump-monster/

    ...The reason Trump is heading to the Oval Office is because the Democratic party rigged the primaries to ensure that a candidate who could have beaten Trump, Bernie Sanders, did not get on the ticket. You want to blame someone, blame Clinton and the rotten ...[text shortened]... ou did worse: you enthusiastically voted time after time for those who did the stealing.
    yes ain't that the truth!
  10. Cape Town
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    09 Nov '16 10:52
    Originally posted by finnegan
    http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2016-11-09/americal-liberals-unleashed-the-trump-monster/

    ...The reason Trump is heading to the Oval Office is because the Democratic party rigged the primaries to ensure that a candidate who could have beaten Trump, Bernie Sanders, did not get on the ticket. You want to blame someone, blame Clinton and the rotten-to-the-core Democratic party leadership.
    Seriously now, the fact is that a lot of democrats voted for Hillary not Bernie. Maybe it was close and maybe bias by the Democrat leaders swayed the result, but even so, you can't place all the blame on the democrat leadership. The fact is that Bernie is too far left for many democrats and way too far left for many americans. I am far from convinced that Bernie could have won against Trump.

    The real problem is the two party system puts forward two candidates and you have to choose one. But most peoples views do not match a particular party and the party policies in this case don't even match the candidate.
  11. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Nov '16 11:10
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Seriously now, the fact is that a lot of democrats voted for Hillary not Bernie. Maybe it was close and maybe bias by the Democrat leaders swayed the result, but even so, you can't place all the blame on the democrat leadership. The fact is that Bernie is too far left for many democrats and way too far left for many americans. I am far from convinced that ...[text shortened]... not match a particular party and the party policies in this case don't even match the candidate.
    I am not sure I did place all the blame on the Democratic leadership.

    Sanders is certainly too far left for many Democrats and most Americans.

    That is the problem.
  12. Joined
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    09 Nov '16 11:12
    Originally posted by vivify
    I wonder if Hillary revealing her no fly zone plan during the Debate played a significant part.
    It certainly did not help.

    It was a culmination of things. She was corrupt and everyone knew it, the fact that she wanted war in Syria did not help her.
  13. Joined
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    09 Nov '16 11:14
    Originally posted by finnegan
    I am not sure I did place all the blame on the Democratic leadership.

    Sanders is certainly too far left for many Democrats and most Americans.

    That is the problem.
    I remember watching someone lecturing me about how the GOP needed super delegates like they do in the DNC to help weed out "unelectables" like Trump. They did this with the notion that Bernie was toxic as well as Trump and neither could win.

    In other words, Dimocracy is too dangerous so these things should be fixed.

    Well, look where that has gotten them
  14. Standard membershavixmir
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    09 Nov '16 11:20
    So, the first international congradulations are in:

    Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, Putin, Marie le Pen...

    And with backing from the KKK... this has every ingredient of becoming the best joke of the decade!
  15. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Nov '16 11:261 edit
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    So, the first international congradulations are in:

    Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, Putin, Marie le Pen...

    And with backing from the KKK... this has every ingredient of becoming the best joke of the decade!
    Wait and see what Obama provokes in his remaining months of power over the military industrial complex. Expect the skies to be thick with drones.

    Expect a rush to sign further free trade deals, giving corporate power all it needs.

    After that, it may be that Trump is less determined to provoke and enter into wars, but he has to deal with what he is handed by Obama.

    With Republicans in both houses and the Supreme Court vacancies to be filled, let's see just how effective the American constitution turns out to be in its checks and balances on arbitrary power and vested interets.
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