Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    27 Jul '18 01:523 edits
    For a long time, American junior chess was dominated by white, particularly Jewish, players.
    To this day. American journalists who are not specialists in chess seem to
    embrace the outdated stereotype of chess as dominated by brainy Jews.

    There have been efforts (rather like affirmative action) in pop culture
    to promote African Americans in chess. The 1987 film 'The Mighty Pawns'
    celebrated how urban black children joined the school's chess team and
    began to excel in chess, in school, and in life. The 2012 film 'Brooklyn Castle'
    featured another school chess team, particularly its star player, Rochelle
    Ballantyne, an African American girl.

    Notwithstanding the legacy of Capablanca, a world champion from Cuba,
    American pop culture seems to have paid little attention to Latinos in chess.
    So US media culture embraced a biracial narrative of white (largely Jewish)
    domination in junior chess, but supposedly with a significant number of
    African Americans ready to challenge that domination, it not end it.

    About a generation ago, Asian Americans appeared practically invisible
    in US junior chess. Given that Asian Americans generally lacked much tradition
    in chess and got stereotyped as lacking qualities needed to excel in chess,
    many 'experts' presumably would have ridiculed any prediction that Asian
    Americans could ever challenge white domination (or even black success) in chess.
    A generation ago, no one outside diverse Asian American communities
    would ever have predicted the recent success of Asian American chess players?

    Can cultures ever change and stereotypes ever be overcome?
    Racist trolls already know that's impossible, of course.

    The 2018 US Junior chess championships recently concluded.
    In the open section, the ten players apparently consisted of nine Asian Americans and one white.
    The Asian Americans apparently included five Chinese (one girl),
    three Indians, and one of Eurasian ('mixed' ) ancestry.

    In the girls' section, the ten players apparently consisted of seven Asian Americans,
    two whites, and one Latina. The Asian Americans apparently included
    four Chinese, one Vietnamese, one Japanese, and one Indian.

    Asian Americans were disproportionately numerous and successful at
    the 2018 US Junior Chess Championship. Some people here may prefer
    to attribute this 'success' to Asian Americans having unfair advantages
    (such as being allowed to take back moves--sarcasm intended), being
    able to cheat without being penalized by (mostly white) tournament officials
    who give them preferential treatment, or the apparent reality that chess must be racist.

    After all, if chess were not racist, then every 'racial' group must have an
    equal number of equally strong players (exactly like in basketball), right?
    Given that different 'racial' groups have produced very different numbers
    of strong players SO FAR, surely chess must be racist. Should players
    at a supposed 'racial disadvantage' not be 'compensated' by being given
    more time to think, the right to take back blunders, or the opportunity to
    consult a chess engine at critical moments of their games?

    In order to preempt more lies by racist trolls, I would like to emphasize that I believe that
    the chessboard has no discrimination according to 'race', only according to moves.
    I believe that some players from every 'racial' background can excel in chess.
    But it's mistaken to presume that such success in chess must be in strict direct proportion
    to each 'racial' group's numbers in the general population. As many observed earlier
    (without controversy then), Jews long disproportionately excelled in American chess.
    (Some Americans even attributed that to Jews supposedly being naturally smarter.)
    As some may observe today (politically embarrassing and covered up), Asian Americans
    are disproportionately excelling in chess. I have no problem with the future emergence
    of an African American chess champion (like Tiger Woods in golf). But I see no political
    necessity to change chess in attempting to contrive that outcome. Let such a future African
    American chess champion develop normally, playing by the same rules and judged by
    the same standards as everyone else. But would that player be treated 'normally'?
  2. Behind the scenes
    Joined
    27 Jun '16
    Moves
    1407
    27 Jul '18 14:33
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    For a long time, American junior chess was dominated by white, particularly Jewish, players.
    To this day. American journalists who are not specialists in chess seem to
    embrace the outdated stereotype of chess as dominated by brainy Jews.

    There have been efforts (rather like affirmative action) in pop culture
    to promote African Americans in chess. ...[text shortened]... nd judged by
    the same standards as everyone else. But would that player be treated 'normally'?
    Asian Americans were disproportionately numerous and successful at
    the 2018 US Junior Chess Championship. Some people here may prefer
    to attribute this 'success' to Asian Americans having unfair advantages
    (such as being allowed to take back moves--sarcasm intended), being
    able to cheat without being penalized by (mostly white) tournament officials
    who give them preferential treatment, or the apparent reality that chess must be racist.

    After all, if chess were not racist, then every 'racial' group must have an
    equal number of equally strong players (exactly like in basketball), right?
    Given that different 'racial' groups have produced very different numbers
    of strong players SO FAR, surely chess must be racist. Should players
    at a supposed 'racial disadvantage' not be 'compensated' by being given
    more time to think, the right to take back blunders, or the opportunity to
    consult a chess engine at critical moments of their games?



    Yes, we know Duchess. Asians are the brilliant, but oppressed group being viciously victimized by the evil, racist, sexist white man (all with abysmal reading comprehension)

    Is this all you know can write about?? 😴
  3. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    27 Jul '18 15:07
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess
  4. Joined
    07 Feb '09
    Moves
    138640
    27 Jul '18 15:26
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    For a long time, American junior chess was dominated by white, particularly Jewish, players.
    To this day. American journalists who are not specialists in chess seem to
    embrace the outdated stereotype of chess as dominated by brainy Jews.

    There have been efforts (rather like affirmative action) in pop culture
    to promote African Americans in chess. ...[text shortened]... nd judged by
    the same standards as everyone else. But would that player be treated 'normally'?
    Have Asians learned how to drive yet ? πŸ˜›

    I used to love hearing the saying ....

    An Asian owning a Ferrari makes as much sense as Stephen Hawking owning a bicycle.

    For those with a sense of humor. And a thick skin. πŸ˜€
  5. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52855
    27 Jul '18 21:27
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Asian Americans were disproportionately numerous and successful at
    the 2018 US Junior Chess Championship. Some people here may prefer
    to attribute this 'success' to Asian Americans having unfair advantages
    (such as being allowed to take back moves--sarcasm intended), being
    able to cheat without being penalized by (mostly white) tournament officials ...[text shortened]... white man (all with abysmal reading comprehension)

    Is this all you know can write about?? 😴
    Allow me:

    "The lying racist troll Mchill continues on his racist rant''

    Ok D64, you can take it from here.
  6. Joined
    07 Feb '09
    Moves
    138640
    27 Jul '18 21:42
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    Allow me:

    "The lying racist troll Mchill continues on his racist rant''

    Ok D64, you can take it from here.
    You shouldn't play with matches. πŸ˜€
  7. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52855
    27 Jul '18 23:18
    Originally posted by @mghrn55
    You shouldn't play with matches. πŸ˜€
    Couldn't help itπŸ™‚ Been burned already so what's one more?
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    31 Jul '18 23:154 edits
    Originally posted by @mghrn55
    Have Asians learned how to drive yet ? πŸ˜›

    I used to love hearing the saying ....

    An Asian owning a Ferrari makes as much sense as Stephen Hawking owning a bicycle.

    For those with a sense of humor. And a thick skin. πŸ˜€
    Takuma Sato (Japan) won the 2017 Indianapolis 500.
    Perhaps he cheated or had an 'unfair advantage'. Perhaps he has some 'superior' white ancestry (sarcasm).

    If Hikaru Nakamura or Wesley So were to win the world chess championship, how many
    of the hypocritical racist Americans here would eagerly claim that they should not be
    considered 'real Americans' because they are Asian immigrants with 'un-American' names
    (at least in Nakamura's case) and so their achievements cannot be real American achievements?

    This thread shows some of the popular endemic anti-Asian racism at RHP.

    Asian Americans may increase their dominance in American junior chess--as Asian Americans
    already have done in American mathematics and science competitions (almost all of
    the students selected on merit to represent the USA in International Olympiads are
    Asian Americans) while many resentful white Americans (both 'conservative' and liberal' )
    keep accusing all Asian Americans of having 'unfair advantages' over everyone else or
    of succeeding only through cheating, and keep hurling racist insults at Asian Americans.

    While most white Americans may grudgingly accept that African Americans dominate such
    popular sports such as basketball and football, most white Americans evidently find it
    far too painful to concede that Asian Americans dominate--fairly--American academics
    at least in mathematics and physical science.

    If many racist white Americans (both 'conservative' or 'liberal' ) got what they really wish for,
    the heavily politicized American 'racial spoils system' (to quote Jason Riley, an African American)
    would set a racial quota for Asian Americans of no more than a few percent of students
    at elite universities. This would motivate massive emigration of gifted Asian Americans.
    Within a generation or two, the USA may cease to have an 'Asian American problem'
    because the few remaining Asian Americans would appear satisfied in public to conform
    to the non-threatening narrow demeaning stereotypes that most other Americans love
    to impose upon them. The best former Asian Americans would employ their talents on
    behalf of countries other than the USA. US teams at the mathematics and science Olympiads
    would have politically approved white majorities, with perhaps token blacks and Latinos,
    and probably finish (at best) somewhere in the middle among the many countries participating.

    German science and technology did not completely collapse after German Jews were driven out,
    and US science and technology will not completely collapse if Asian Americans are driven out,
    though that exodus would be a disproportionately harder blow to the USA than it was to Germany.

    Most Americans may prefer a future society in which Asian Americans no longer are allowed
    to 'threaten' white, black, or Latino Americans in competing for the best schools or jobs.
    Most Americans may be ready to accept a future society in which Asian Americans no
    longer are able or inclined to contribute their diverse talents.
  9. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    22192
    01 Aug '18 02:33
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Takuma Sato (Japan) won the 2017 Indianapolis 500.
    Perhaps he cheated or had an 'unfair advantage'. Perhaps he has some 'superior' white ancestry (sarcasm).

    If Hikaru Nakamura or Wesley So were to win the world chess championship, how many
    of the hypocritical racist Americans here would eagerly claim that they should not be
    considered 'real America ...[text shortened]... ty in which Asian Americans no
    longer are able or inclined to contribute their diverse talents.
    Really? Our Asian-American kids are better at chess than our Russian-American kids?

    I wonder how many stereotypes that news just crushed?
  10. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    01 Aug '18 04:39
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    For a long time, American junior chess was dominated by white, particularly Jewish, players.
    To this day. American journalists who are not specialists in chess seem to
    embrace the outdated stereotype of chess as dominated by brainy Jews.

    There have been efforts (rather like affirmative action) in pop culture
    to promote African Americans in chess. ...[text shortened]... nd judged by
    the same standards as everyone else. But would that player be treated 'normally'?
    Breaking news!

    Black man in Central Park was beaten by a white man while playing chess!!

    https://sarahschuman.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/srps_chess_05.jpg
  11. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    01 Aug '18 14:172 edits
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    Really? Our Asian-American kids are better at chess than our Russian-American kids?

    I wonder how many stereotypes that news just crushed?
    A generation ago, there was a popular racist American stereotype that
    Asian Americans must be weak at chess (too hard for them to master).

    American chess was dominated for a few decades
    by immigrants from the USSR, but they have been
    recently challenged or surpassed by players of Asian heritage.

    Gata Kamsky, a Soviet immigrant, is an ethnic Tatar, born
    in Asia, and hence an Asian American. Many people
    in the USSR were not Russians.

    US women's chess has an older generation of Soviet
    immigrants and a rising young generation of Asian Americans.

    Given the evident demographic trends, US junior chess
    probably will become more dominated by Asian Americans,
    though the non-chess media presumably will cling to
    its stereotypes of white Jewish domination for many years.
  12. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52855
    01 Aug '18 19:33
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Breaking news!

    Black man in Central Park was beaten by a white man while playing chess!!

    https://sarahschuman.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/srps_chess_05.jpg
    So your evidence is an image of two black men playing chess?
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