Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 25 Nov '14 16:26

    “Ninety-three percent of blacks in America are killed by other blacks. We’re talking about the exception here.”

    — Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/11/25/giulianis-claim-that-93-percent-of-blacks-are-killed-by-other-blacks/
    The numbers came from a 2007 U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics report, which stated that blacks were victims of 7,999 homicides in 2005 and said that 93 percent were killed by people who shared their race.

    http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/jul/17/tweets/look-statistic-blacks-and-murder/
  2. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    25 Nov '14 16:45
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]
    “Ninety-three percent of blacks in America are killed by other blacks. We’re talking about the exception here.”

    — Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/11/25/giulianis-claim-that-93-percent-of-blacks-are-killed-by-other-blacks/
    The numbers came from a 2007 U.S. Bureau of Justice ...[text shortened]... ttp://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/jul/17/tweets/look-statistic-blacks-and-murder/
    What are the corresponding statistics among white people?
  3. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    25 Nov '14 16:56
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]
    “Ninety-three percent of blacks in America are killed by other blacks. We’re talking about the exception here.”

    — Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/11/25/giulianis-claim-that-93-percent-of-blacks-are-killed-by-other-blacks/
    The numbers came from a 2007 U.S. Bureau of Justice ...[text shortened]... ttp://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/jul/17/tweets/look-statistic-blacks-and-murder/
    Standard Italian operating procedure: Blame some black guy.
  4. 25 Nov '14 16:59
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    What are the corresponding statistics among white people?
    Are white people rioting about how white lives are important?
  5. 25 Nov '14 17:23
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Standard Italian operating procedure: Blame some black guy.
    You are saying he is wrong?
  6. 25 Nov '14 18:03
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    What are the corresponding statistics among white people?
    The same link said that only 7% of homicides were interracial. I would speculate that there are more white on white murders than black on black simply due to the larger number of white people.
  7. 25 Nov '14 18:08
    I found this link interesting when it comes to murders.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

    According to the link, even though the black population is only a fraction of the which population in the US, blacks account for more murders than whites.
  8. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    25 Nov '14 18:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The same link said that only 7% of homicides were interracial. I would speculate that there are more white on white murders than black on black simply due to the larger number of white people.
    I'd suggest that a major factor in murders is opportunity. It's difficult to murder someone if you never meet them, so I think that what these figures are reflective of is a level of ghettoisation in American society. In a more integrated society you'd be murdering each other without regard to race, creed or class.
  9. 25 Nov '14 18:23
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    I'd suggest that a major factor in murders is opportunity. It's difficult to murder someone if you never meet them, so I think that what these figures are reflective of is a level of ghettoisation in American society. In a more integrated society you'd be murdering each other without regard to race, creed or class.
    Do you believe your suggestion to be absolutely true? Or do you believe that it is simply your twist on things?
  10. 25 Nov '14 18:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    I'd suggest that a major factor in murders is opportunity. It's difficult to murder someone if you never meet them, so I think that what these figures are reflective of is a level of ghettoisation in American society. In a more integrated society you'd be murdering each other without regard to race, creed or class.
    There are many factors, but essentially you are right. Most murders, outside of the drug trade, are of family members or acquaintances. It is most common for people to self segregate (that is to associate and live with their own culture) it is also common that homicides be within that context.

    The same is most often true even in the drug trades.

    I don't think American society is really unique in ghettoisation. It exists all over the planet.

    I wish I could find it, but I heard a statistic that black cops kill more black suspects than do white cops. I think that your same factor of opportunity is at work there as well. I think it is a rare cop, who wakes up in the morning determined to make a kill.
  11. 25 Nov '14 18:37
    I don't think American society is really unique in ghettoisation. It exists all over the planet.

    What do you mean by ghettoisation?
  12. 25 Nov '14 18:47
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]I don't think American society is really unique in ghettoisation. It exists all over the planet.

    What do you mean by ghettoisation?[/b]
    Ghettoism (not my word) is people with similar culture living in close proximity, dictated often by race, ethnicity, religion, etc.
  13. 25 Nov '14 18:54
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Ghettoism (not my word) is people with similar culture living in close proximity, dictated often by race, ethnicity, religion, etc.
    It seems like human nature leads to ghettoes as you describe them. I wonder why it has taken on the additional attribute of poverty and crime.
  14. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    25 Nov '14 19:28
    Originally posted by normbenign
    There are many factors, but essentially you are right. Most murders, outside of the drug trade, are of family members or acquaintances. It is most common for people to self segregate (that is to associate and live with their own culture) it is also common that homicides be within that context.

    The same is most often true even in the drug trades.

    I ...[text shortened]... there as well. I think it is a rare cop, who wakes up in the morning determined to make a kill.
    The same process of ghettoisation is occurring in the U.K. I'm not making the claim that that is in any way unique to the U.S., it's just that it is the U.S. statistics we are talking about. I've no idea about the statistics in the U.K. - I'll have a look at the office of national statistics site, but I won't post anything if I don't find anything relevant.
  15. 25 Nov '14 19:47
    Originally posted by Eladar
    It seems like human nature leads to ghettoes as you describe them. I wonder why it has taken on the additional attribute of poverty and crime.
    In the US, ghettos have been usually of recent immigrants, almost always poor (Irish entering America accounted for as many indentured servants as there were African slaves), and often finding difficulty in assimilating into the main culture. These were Irish, Scotch, Polish, Jewish, Scandinavian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese and others. Nearly all had some criminality in the beginning, but most soon found joining the system better than fighting it.

    The new immigrants often take over the ghettos of the former immigrants. For example, it is quite common that blacks transformed former Jewish and Polish ghettos into black ones, in very short order.

    I am sorry to say that black ghettos seem to stick around with greater persistence than others, despite specific attempts to assist them. Some would say that the efforts to assist them have been counter productive, and amount to re-enslavement, a new plantation as it were. Check out the writings of Starr Parker, a former ghetto girl who pulled herself up by the bootstraps.