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  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    29 Apr '10 13:07
    ...in Texas

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/Rep-Wants-AZ-Immigration-Law-in-Texas-92305354.html

    ... in California

    http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/politics/Children-of-Illegals-Should-Be-Deported-Hunter-92313089.html

    ... and in Alabama

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1831



    And in true Greek irony (an idiom which I understand that I use at the risk of my post being declared fiscally unsound), during the protests...

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63R5HP20100428

    ... Mexico seems to have some immigration trouble of their own

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100429/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_mexico_migrants_1




    and, in other news, in the wake of this:

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2951855/Nasa-Evidence-of-life-on-mars.html

    ... rumor has it that an Amendment to the Arizona law has been proposed to extend it to disallowing illegal immigrants from other planets.
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    29 Apr '10 13:11
    Now, from the opinion department...

    To lay the "blame" for all of this at the feet of a few Arizona (or other) xenophobes or racists completely misses the point.

    The "blame" for this movement, so far it it goes, falls squarely at the feet of the federal government, both the Bush and Obama administrations, for consistently ignoring and refusing to deal with an issue that the American people want dealt with.

    One may not have liked McCain-Kennedy, but at least it was an attempt. The ostrich approach simply isn't going to cut it anymore. The states are going to see to that,
  3. 29 Apr '10 15:35 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    Now, from the opinion department...

    To lay the "blame" for all of this at the feet of a few Arizona (or other) xenophobes or racists completely misses the point.

    The "blame" for this movement, so far it it goes, falls squarely at the feet of the federal government, both the Bush and Obama administrations, for consistently ignoring and refusing to deal wit ...[text shortened]... ostrich approach simply isn't going to cut it anymore. The states are going to see to that,
    The Arizona law seems almost certain to crumble on a number of constitutional grounds, and it seems hard to imagine how they'll enforce it without using blatant racial profiling.

    But I suspect that most of the law's supporters in Arizona already know this. I believe the REAL motivation behind Arizona's new law is to ensure that immigration issues become the main topic of discussion and action for the federal government and Congress this summer.

    Both parties have been avoiding the issue, probably because it's impossible to put the two sides into the usual conservative vs liberal pigeon-holes. I'm sure the LAST thing the GOP wants right now is to have an immigration discussion that will divide the Tea Party movement into two equally sized opposing factions. And the Dems are equally worried that this might divide their own base as well.

    Too bad.

    It looks all of these puppies are going to be spending the summer having to deal with immigration reform. I don't agree with the specifics of Arizona's law, but it actually is an ingenious move.
  4. 29 Apr '10 16:48
    The "blame" for this is that you will always have people whining about some other group of other people they don't like no matter what the government policy is.
  5. 29 Apr '10 17:03
    likely arizona peace officers have had frequent contact with illegal aliens and NOT arrested them, due to dept. policy or whatever, otherwise why pass the law?
  6. 29 Apr '10 18:55
    Originally posted by sh76
    ...in Texas

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/Rep-Wants-AZ-Immigration-Law-in-Texas-92305354.html

    ... in California

    http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/politics/Children-of-Illegals-Should-Be-Deported-Hunter-92313089.html

    ... and in Alabama

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1831



    And in true Greek irony (an idiom which I ...[text shortened]... Arizona law has been proposed to extend it to disallowing illegal immigrants from other planets.
    was there ever a time when there wasn't an anti-illegal immigrant sentiment?
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    29 Apr '10 20:44
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    was there ever a time when there wasn't an anti-illegal immigrant sentiment?
    Sentiment? Who knows?

    But there's never been this much public airing of the sentiment by politicians, at least that I can remember.
  8. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    29 Apr '10 23:33
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    The Arizona law seems almost certain to crumble on a number of constitutional grounds

    I heard a snippet of Lindsey Graham saying he thought it was unconstitutional the other day, but I've not yet heard an argument why it would be unconstitutional. Care to expand?

    I'm sure the LAST thing the GOP wants right now is to have an immigration discussion that will divide the Tea Party movement into two equally sized opposing factions.

    I don't see this an issue that would divide the Tea Partiers at all. I think the vast majority of them support securing the border, enforcing the law, and no amnesty. If there is a split on the right over this it will be in the GOP itself. A lot of these folks are already owned by corporations and special interest groups who want cheap labor and open borders. The Tea Partiers will go after after them if they don't keep their heads down.
  9. 30 Apr '10 00:37
    The Tea Party idiots don't care because it isn't white people's rights that are being violated.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    30 Apr '10 00:50
    It's a rum business when a deliberative democracy passes legislation or has laws on its books that are subsequently not enforced. Issues fester and demagoguery looms large. Its 'momentum' fills holes in the system that people are quite right to be concerned about.
  11. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Apr '10 01:11
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    [b]The Arizona law seems almost certain to crumble on a number of constitutional grounds


    I heard a snippet of Lindsey Graham saying he thought it was unconstitutional the other day, but I've not yet heard an argument why it would be unconstitutional. Care to expand?
    [/b]
    http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=129589&page=3
  12. 30 Apr '10 01:17
    Originally posted by FMF
    It's a rum business when a deliberative democracy passes legislation or has laws on its books that are subsequently not enforced. Issues fester and demagoguery looms large. Its 'momentum' fills holes in the system that people are quite right to be concerned about.
    With all due respect, I live on one of the border states, you do not. So what you think that people down here should be concerned about is irrellevant, particularly about this racial issue.
  13. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    30 Apr '10 01:19 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by badmoon
    With all due respect, I live on one of the border states, you do not. So what you think that people down here should be concerned about is irrellevant, particularly about this racial issue.
    Oh? So you think that what just happened in Arizona - the thing I referred to as demagoguery - couldn't have been avoided even if the federal government had enforced the laws that were already on the books?
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    30 Apr '10 01:24
    Originally posted by badmoon
    what you think that people down here should be concerned about is irrellevant, particularly about this racial issue.
    Regradless of what you or I might feel, I think people who are concerned about illegal immigration are not only entitled to their opinion, they are also entitled to see action taken by their elected representatives. If the federal government had done its job, would there be this draconian mess in Arizona now?
  15. 30 Apr '10 01:27
    dang. i find myself on the same side of an issue as FMF.