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  1. 20 Aug '17 13:39 / 1 edit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews

    I found this interesting. In Nazi Germany there were Jews who supported Hitler and voted for Nazi types. This group supported integrating Jews into society by stripping them of their Jewish roots and opposed Zionism.

    This reminds me of the great many Jews who seem to support the same agenda, minus voting for Nazis and voting Dim instead who detest Zionism and religion in general.

    Very interesting stuff.

    Here is my favorite line in the article.

    The seemingly ironic fact that a Jewish association advocated loyalty to the Nazi programme gave rise to a contemporary joke about Naumann and his followers ending their meeting by giving the Nazi salute and shouting "Down With Us!".[
  2. 20 Aug '17 19:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews

    I found this interesting. In Nazi Germany there were Jews who supported Hitler and voted for Nazi types. This group supported integrating Jews into society by stripping them of their Jewish roots and opposed Zionism.

    This reminds me of the great many Jews who seem to support the same a ...[text shortened]... and his followers ending their meeting by giving the Nazi salute and shouting "Down With Us!".[
    The 'history troll' Whodey keeps showing his abysmal ignorance of the Third Reich.
    (Whodey's comments about Zionism and the Democratic Party are his typical nonsense.)

    It's long been well-known that many persons of Jewish heritage, usually Mischlinge
    (persons of 1/2 or 1/4 'Jewish blood' ) rather than 'full Jews', served the Third Reich.
    There's a long list of Mischlinge who served in the armed forces, perhaps even including
    a few Jews who had concealed their identities enough to join the Waffen-SS.

    Indeed, as I recall, there was a Jew who joined the SS and became the commander of a
    minor concentration camp in a Baltic state. There are conflicting reports about how he
    behaved there. The (very pro-Israeli) American historian Bryan Mark Rigg claimed that
    he enjoyed raping Jewish women before ordering their executions. On the other hand,
    one book (which I don't have in front of me) claimed that he was unfairly demonized after
    the war and that, within the Nazi system, he was comparatively merciful toward Jewish prisoners.
    As far as I can recall, he was not executed for war crimes.
  3. 21 Aug '17 12:13
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    The 'history troll' Whodey keeps showing his abysmal ignorance of the Third Reich.
    (Whodey's comments about Zionism and the Democratic Party are his typical nonsense.)

    It's long been well-known that many persons of Jewish heritage, usually Mischlinge
    (persons of 1/2 or 1/4 'Jewish blood' ) rather than 'full Jews', served the Third Reich.
    There's a ...[text shortened]... y merciful toward Jewish prisoners.
    As far as I can recall, he was not executed for war crimes.
    Too bad we don't have the numbers of Jews who voted for Hitler. The bottom line is, however, he had support from Jews.

    Very odd.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    21 Aug '17 12:40
    Originally posted by @whodey
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews

    I found this interesting. In Nazi Germany there were Jews who supported Hitler and voted for Nazi types. This group supported integrating Jews into society by stripping them of their Jewish roots and opposed Zionism.

    This reminds me of the great many Jews who seem to support the same a ...[text shortened]... and his followers ending their meeting by giving the Nazi salute and shouting "Down With Us!".[
    http://www.theonion.com/article/aclu-defends-nazis-right-to-burn-down-aclu-headqua-1648
  5. 21 Aug '17 16:04 / 1 edit
    Why don't they just rebuild the ovens for themselves?

    Geesh!
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    24 Aug '17 12:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Too bad we don't have the numbers of Jews who voted for Hitler. The bottom line is, however, he had support from Jews.

    Very odd.
    The German Orthodox Jewish community had (and the transplanted community in the US has) the custom of saying a prayer for the welfare of the head of government in its country during the Saturday service.

    We don't know exactly when and if they stopped saying it in Nazi Germany, but I'm told on good authority that they were still saying it well after 1933.

    For all of Hitler's bombastic agitation, what the Nazis eventually became and did was unforeseeable; certainly before the Nuremberg laws, and probably long afterwards.
  7. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    24 Aug '17 12:40
    Originally posted by @sh76
    The German Orthodox Jewish community had (and the transplanted community in the US has) the custom of saying a prayer for the welfare of the head of government in its country during the Saturday service.

    We don't know exactly when and if they stopped saying it in Nazi Germany, but I'm told on good authority that they were still saying it well after 1933.
    ...[text shortened]... me and did was unforeseeable; certainly before the Nuremberg laws, and probably long afterwards.
    Mein Kampf was published in the mid 20's.
    And although the final solution ain't in there, it does leave little to the imagination as to how the nazis viewed Jews.

    So, when Hitler came to power, it was quite clear what his agenda was going to be.
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    24 Aug '17 15:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Mein Kampf was published in the mid 20's.
    And although the final solution ain't in there, it does leave little to the imagination as to how the nazis viewed Jews.

    So, when Hitler came to power, it was quite clear what his agenda was going to be.
    I really don't want to make it seem as though I'm defending Hitler or the Nazis. They murdered all 4 of my father's grandparents, after all.

    But I don't think it was apparent that the planned extermination of the Jews from Day 1. Emigration? Expulsion? Harsh treatment? Yes. But even Mein Kampf, though it mentions getting rid of the Jews, I don't think it actually mentions killing them all. Moreover, Hitler himself distanced himself from Mein Kampf after he took power according to some sources I've seen.

    Frankly, had the war never come, I'm not 100% convinced the Nazis would have set out to murder all Jews. They might have been content with some combination of expulsion or oppression as in the Nuremberg laws and Madagascar plan.

    Opportunity under cover of war, anger at the resistance of the UK and having burned all international PR bridges in any case probably all contributed to the final solution being enacted.

    The point is, I don't think the extermination was foreseeable in the mid-1930's. Keep in mind that a program to murder Jews en masse was not begun until June, 1941.
  9. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    24 Aug '17 16:32
    Originally posted by @sh76
    I really don't want to make it seem as though I'm defending Hitler or the Nazis. They murdered all 4 of my father's grandparents, after all.

    But I don't think it was apparent that the planned extermination of the Jews from Day 1. Emigration? Expulsion? Harsh treatment? Yes. But even Mein Kampf, though it mentions getting rid of the Jews, I don't think it ac ...[text shortened]... mid-1930's. Keep in mind that a program to murder Jews en masse was not begun until June, 1941.
    As I said: extermination (the final solution) wasn't in Mein Kampf (it was concocted in the 40's at the Wannasee conference).

    But a very harsh time was certainly on the cards for all to witness.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    24 Aug '17 18:05
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    As I said: extermination (the final solution) wasn't in Mein Kampf (it was concocted in the 40's at the Wannasee conference).

    But a very harsh time was certainly on the cards for all to witness.
    Not to nitpick, the the program of mass murder was in effect before the Wannasee conference. The Wannasee conference took place on January 20, 1942. At the outset of Barbarossa (June 22, 1941), the special action units already had orders to kill all Jews in the eastern territories to be conquered. That the policy would eventually be applied behind the battle lines as well seems to have been inevitable.

    I therefore think that the true start of the "final solution" was in June, 1941 rather than January 1942.
  11. 24 Aug '17 19:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sh76 to Shavixmir
    Not to nitpick, the the program of mass murder was in effect before the Wannasee conference. The Wannasee conference took place on January 20, 1942. At the outset of Barbarossa (June 22, 1941), the special action units already had orders to kill all Jews in the eastern territories to be conquered. That the policy would eventually be applied behind ...[text shortened]... re think that the true start of the "final solution" was in June, 1941 rather than January 1942.
    A (post-Soviet) Russian film made an (exaggerated) hero out of Yefim Fomin,
    who was a Jewish political commissar at the epic defense of Brest in 1941.

    While he was a brave man, Fomin was not a suicidal one. When the fortress fell, Fomin
    attempted to conceal his identity (pretending to be an ordinary soldier) and escape.
    Another Soviet POW informed on him, giving his real identity to the Germans.
    Then Fomin was quickly executed.

    In the film, Fomin defiantly *volunteers* to the Germans that he's both a political commissar
    and a Jew, thus insuring his immediate execution. It's supposed to appear more heroic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yefim_Fomin
  12. 25 Aug '17 02:22
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Mein Kampf was published in the mid 20's.
    And although the final solution ain't in there, it does leave little to the imagination as to how the nazis viewed Jews.

    So, when Hitler came to power, it was quite clear what his agenda was going to be.
    It is amazing that about 99.9% of blacks voted for Obama, but all of these Jews voted for Hitler after knowing what he was about.

    Amazing.

    They probably were in love with the socialist angle.
  13. 25 Aug '17 20:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey to Shavixmir
    It is amazing that about 99.9% of blacks voted for Obama, but all of these Jews voted for Hitler after knowing what he was about.

    Amazing.

    They probably were in love with the socialist angle.
    "It is amazing that about 99.9% of blacks voted for Obama..."
    --Whodey

    It's normal--far from amazing--that the troll Whodey keeps exaggerating and lying.
    Barack Obama received about 93-95% of African American votes in his presidental elections.

    http://www.debate.org/opinions/do-african-americans-just-vote-for-obama-because-he-is-black

    "I took the percentage of black votes for the democratic party from 1976 to 2004 and
    compared them to the 2008 election and 2012 election with President Obama involved.

    1976 - 83% of black vote
    1980 - 83% of black vote
    1984 - 91% of black vote
    1988 - 89% of black vote
    1992 - 83% of black vote
    1996 - 84% of black vote
    2000 - 90% of black vote
    2004 - 88% of black vote
    VS
    2008 - 95% of black vote
    2012 - 93% of black vote"
  14. 31 Aug '17 01:19
    The Lehi, a Zionist terrorist group, sought to ally with Germany against the UK.
    (One of its leaders, Yitzhak Shamir, became a Prime Minister of Israel.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

    "Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II.
    Lehi initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside
    them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.[2]
    Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice
    attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis.[2] During World War II, it declared that it
    would establish a Jewish state based upon "nationalist and totalitarian principles"."