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Debates Forum

  1. 18 Jan '14 22:04
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/18/actress-out-of-san-francisco-production-after-endorsing-tea-party-candidate/


    I have nothing against this as long as we are consistent. If we are going to say that you can't discriminate, then there is something wrong here.
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    18 Jan '14 22:13
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/18/actress-out-of-san-francisco-production-after-endorsing-tea-party-candidate/


    I have nothing against this as long as we are consistent. If we are going to say that you can't discriminate, then there is something wrong here.
    Do you even read the articles you link to?:

    She said Alonso abruptly resigned from the cast on Friday, given the backlash on the immigration issue.
  3. 18 Jan '14 22:48
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Do you even read the articles you link to?:

    She said Alonso abruptly [b]resigned
    from the cast on Friday, given the backlash on the immigration issue.[/b]
    Do you even know what a constructive discharge is?

    Here is the California Supreme Court's definition:

    In order to establish a constructive discharge, an employee must plead and prove, by the usual preponderance of the evidence standard, that the employer either intentionally created or knowingly permitted working conditions that were so intolerable or aggravated at the time of the employee's resignation that a reasonable employer would realize that a reasonable person in the employee's position would be compelled to resign.


    From the article cited in the OP:

    The actress was to perform next month at the Brava Theater Center in San Francisco’s Mission District in a Spanish-language version of “The Vagina Monologues,” scheduled for a run from February 14th through 17th. The show is being produced by none other than Eliana Lopez, wife of San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi.

    “We really cannot have her in the show, unfortunately,” Lopez told KPIX 5. She said Alonso abruptly resigned from the cast on Friday, given the backlash on the immigration issue.

    “Of course she has the right to say whatever she wants. But we’re in the middle of the Mission. Doing what she is doing is against what we believe,” Lopez said.


    What did they do, tell Alonso, a professional actress, that she couldn't do the show and then give her desk work? I would have resigned too.
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    18 Jan '14 23:23
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    Do you even know what a constructive discharge is?

    Here is the California Supreme Court's definition:

    [quote]In order to establish a constructive discharge, an employee must plead and prove, by the usual preponderance of the evidence standard, that the employer either intentionally created or knowingly permitted working conditions that were so int ...[text shortened]... actress, that she couldn't do the show and then give her desk work? I would have resigned too.
    Just make it up as you go along, mmm; the article says nothing about "desk work".
  5. 19 Jan '14 00:05
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Just make it up as you go along, mmm; the article says nothing about "desk work".
    So Alonso was hired to be an actress in The Vagina Monologues. After Alonso did the ad for the Tea Party candidate, The Vagina Monologues producer said, “We really cannot have her in the show, unfortunately." Then Alonso resigned.

    So the producer would not let Alonso do what she was hired to do because of her political views.

    Yes or no, No1, is that a constructive discharge?
  6. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Jan '14 00:17 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    So Alonso was hired to be an actress in The Vagina Monologues. After Alonso did the ad for the Tea Party candidate, The Vagina Monologues producer said, [b]“We really cannot have her in the show, unfortunately." Then Alonso resigned.

    So the producer would not let Alonso do what she was hired to do because of her political views.

    Yes or no, No1, is that a constructive discharge?[/b]
    What part of "resigned", didn't you get?

    There's nothing suggesting that Alonso has any intention of filing a lawsuit and that the agreement for her to leave was, at most, mutual.

    You'd need a lot more proof, jailhouse, to prove "constructive discharge"; there's no evidence that conditions were "intolerable" nor that the "employer" created whatever conditions prevailed nor that a "reasonable" employee would have felt "compelled" to resign.
  7. 19 Jan '14 00:27 / 2 edits
    Vanessa Redgrave, an English actress, sued the Boston Symphony
    Orchestra, claiming that it had terminated her contract for a performance
    on account of her support of Palestinian rights and criticisms of Israel.
    (Reportedly, some supporters of Israel threatened to withhold their
    financial contributions from the BSO unless it terminated her contract.)

    The US courts decided that the BSO was liable for a breach of contract,
    but it had not violated Vanessa Redgrave's civil rights. If I recall correctly,
    Vanessa Redgrave complained that the rather small amount of damages
    that she was awarded could hardly begin to cover her legal costs.

    Here's Vanessa Redgrave v. Boston Symphony Orchestra (1988):
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17283568297737840904

    Given that. on account of her political views (chiefly supporting the
    Palestinians vs Israel) Vanessa Redgrave seemed practically 'blacklisted'
    at that time (which changed later) from working in the American film and
    television industries, might the US courts have been influenced by political
    as well as legal considerations? I have no position about this question.
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Jan '14 00:37
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Vanessa Redgrave, an English actress, sued the Boston Symphony
    Orchestra, claiming that it had terminated her contract for a performance
    on account of her support of Palestinian rights and criticisms of Israel.
    (Reportedly, some supporters of Israel threatened to withhold their
    financial contributions from the BSO unless it terminated her contract.)
    ...[text shortened]... fluenced by political
    as well as legal considerations? I have no position about this question.
    The decision seems legally sound to me.

    Note that the BSO did, in fact, terminate Redgrave's contract and thus the situation is different than in the case that is the subject of the thread.
  9. 19 Jan '14 03:48
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The decision seems legally sound to me.

    Note that the BSO did, in fact, terminate Redgrave's contract and thus the situation is different than in the case that is the subject of the thread.
    And Alonso's contract wasn't breached when she was told that she could no longer perform in the show even though performance was the essential term of her contract? what the heck...
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Jan '14 05:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    And Alonso's contract wasn't breached when she was told that she could no longer perform in the show even though performance was the essential term of her contract? what the heck...
    How do you know what exactly she was told and when? And what exactly were the terms of the contract?
  11. 19 Jan '14 09:23
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/18/actress-out-of-san-francisco-production-after-endorsing-tea-party-candidate/


    I have nothing against this as long as we are consistent. If we are going to say that you can't discriminate, then there is something wrong here.
    I don't see any discrimination here. A Tea Party supporter cannot reasonably be expected to remember any lines.
  12. 19 Jan '14 19:41
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I don't see any discrimination here. A Tea Party supporter cannot reasonably be expected to remember any lines.
    I see you are ok with right kind of discrimination. At least you are being honest.
  13. 19 Jan '14 21:01
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    How do you know what exactly she was told and when? And what exactly were the terms of the contract?
    How do you know what exactly she was told and when?

    The producer's statement speaks for itself. Here, I will post it again:

    "We really cannot have her in the show, unfortunately. Of course she has the right to say whatever she wants. But we’re in the middle of the Mission. Doing what she is doing is against what we believe."

    You would think that if Alonso had not been pressured to resign, then the producer would not have told reporters that "we really cannot have her in the show."

    And what exactly were the terms of the contract?

    Well the essential term was that Alonso would act in The Vagina Monologues in February. The other terms are unknown; however, it is likely that Alonso had a "for cause" employment relationship with production. After all, such a relationship is standard industry practice, and Alonso is a seasoned actress. She would have protected herself in her contract. Production would have protected itself as well. Production certainly would not have bargained for an at-will employment relationship and thus assume the risk that Alonso would quit, for what ever reason, on the eleventh hour and fifty-ninth minute. If production bargained for at-will relationships with its performers, then production would have no legal remedy to recoup its losses if all the performers quit right before the debut.
  14. 19 Jan '14 22:43
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra to Eladar
    I don't see any discrimination here. A Tea Party supporter cannot reasonably be expected to remember any lines.
    To be realistic, an actress's accustomed to many kinds of discrimination,
    with varying levels of justification, usually based on physical appearance.
    An actress may be rejected on account of her age, height, weight, body
    shape, racial appearance, etc. If she cannot face rejection, often for
    apparently unreasonable stated reasons (and sometimes for an unstated
    reason such as her refusal to sleep with a powerful man), a woman should
    not become an actress.
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    20 Jan '14 06:05
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    [b]How do you know what exactly she was told and when?

    The producer's statement speaks for itself. Here, I will post it again:

    "We really cannot have her in the show, unfortunately. Of course she has the right to say whatever she wants. But we’re in the middle of the Mission. Doing what she is doing is against what we believe."

    You would ...[text shortened]... uld have no legal remedy to recoup its losses if all the performers quit right before the debut.[/b]
    She may very well have been asked to resign. That in and of itself does not a "constructive discharge" make.

    "The other terms are unknown". 'Nuff said.