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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    13 Feb '17 00:271 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/26/donald-trump-voter-fraud-lie-political-gain-explanations

    "Here are the potential sinister motives behind Donald Trump's voter fraud lie."
    --Lawrence Douglas

    "The impulse to heap all of Trump’s lies together or to puzzle over his
    unusual psychology threatens, however, to deflect our attention from
    the politics of this particular claim, which contains two separate
    falsehoods: first, that immigrants robbed him of the popular vote; and
    second, that the media has conspired to suppress the story. Together
    these falsehoods can be enlisted to serve three distinctly toxic political goals.

    First, they work to undergird Trump’s anti-immigrant narrative.
    Sweeping together undocumented immigrants with unregistered voters,
    the myth paints them as a double threat – infecting the fabric of society
    with drugs and crime while also corrupting the very processes of
    American democracy. As a threat to both our society and our
    democracy, these “illegals” need to be removed.

    Secondly, the myth of the stolen popular vote delivers a powerful
    argument for an ever more aggressive policing of the polls. In the name
    of cracking down on voter “fraud”, Trump may work to erect barriers to
    discourage or effectively bar millions of Americans from exercising their
    franchise rights.

    Finally, and most ominously, Trump has already drafted a script that
    could be used in two years’ time to impeach the midterm elections
    should they result in Republican reversals. That same script could be
    called upon four years from now should Trump lose a re-election bid.
    Whatever damage candidate Trump could have done to American
    democracy had he lost in November would pale in comparison to the
    damage wrought by a sitting president rejecting his defeat.

    This is not to say that Trump would try to turn America into Gambia.
    But confidence in the results of elections is the ultimate benchmark of a
    democracy’s legitimacy. This confidence is based on the transparency
    of processes, and on the existence of a free and independent press
    able to expose any irregularities. In propagating the myth of his stolen
    popular vote, Trump has attacked both."
  2. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    13 Feb '17 03:011 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/26/donald-trump-voter-fraud-lie-political-gain-explanations

    "Here are the potential sinister motives behind Donald Trump's voter fraud lie."
    --Lawrence Douglas

    "The impulse to heap all of Trump’s lies together or to puzzle over his
    unusual psychology threatens, however, to deflect our attention f ...[text shortened]... irregularities. In propagating the myth of his stolen
    popular vote, Trump has attacked both."
    Nah.

    He's just lying about voter fraud because he can't stomach the thought of his losing in any capacity. He's got the maturity of a 9 year old who thinks his little league team is the league's best and their 6-13 record is a product of bad luck and cheating by everyone else.

    That's my take, anyway.
  3. Joined
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    13 Feb '17 10:23
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/26/donald-trump-voter-fraud-lie-political-gain-explanations

    "Here are the potential sinister motives behind Donald Trump's voter fraud lie."
    --Lawrence Douglas

    "The impulse to heap all of Trump’s lies together or to puzzle over his
    unusual psychology threatens, however, to deflect our attention f ...[text shortened]... irregularities. In propagating the myth of his stolen
    popular vote, Trump has attacked both."
    no

    much more plausible is the fact that donald trump just repeats what he hears on TV.
    in this case, a tweet made by a random ashole, picked up by infowars, the channel of a class A ashole reached the Donald.

    it's very exciting to picture Donald as a world class manipulator, a Bond villain if you will. You're thinking he looks too stupid to be genuine so he must be a genius.

    Lacking any evidence to the contrary, it is much more plausible that he really is dumb.
  4. Joined
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    13 Feb '17 11:03
    Originally posted by sh76
    Nah.

    He's just lying about voter fraud because he can't stomach the thought of his losing in any capacity. He's got the maturity of a 9 year old who thinks his little league team is the league's best and their 6-13 record is a product of bad luck and cheating by everyone else.

    That's my take, anyway.
    Do you reckon that mature Obama was much more sinister in his lying?
  5. Standard membersh76
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    13 Feb '17 16:26
    Originally posted by whodey
    Do you reckon that mature Obama was much more sinister in his lying?
    More sophisticated, yes. He also did less lying (per statement) than Trump, but yes, he did plenty of it as most politicians do.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 Feb '17 17:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    Nah.

    He's just lying about voter fraud because he can't stomach the thought of his losing in any capacity. He's got the maturity of a 9 year old who thinks his little league team is the league's best and their 6-13 record is a product of bad luck and cheating by everyone else.

    That's my take, anyway.
    I'm not even sure he is lying; it's quite possible he is narcissist enough to believe that it is literally impossible that he didn't get more votes than Hillary in a "fair" election. Anyway as Matt Taibbi points out:

    A primary characteristic of any authoritarian situation, from East Germany to high school, is the total uselessness of facts and evidence as a defense against anything. Trump is in the White House because he and his people understood this from the start. His movement isn't about facts. All that matters to his followers is that blame stays fixed in the right direction.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-the-end-of-facts-in-the-trump-era-w465615

    The article is a great read and has this hilarious line:

    While Trump's new staff spent the first few weeks tearing apart presidential tradition like a troop of apes let loose in the Louvre,
  7. Joined
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    13 Feb '17 17:13
    Originally posted by sh76
    More sophisticated, yes. He also did less lying (per statement) than Trump, but yes, he did plenty of it as most politicians do.
    Really? Do you a lie tally?
  8. Standard membersh76
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    13 Feb '17 17:20
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I'm not even sure he is lying; it's quite possible he is narcissist enough to believe that it is literally impossible that he didn't get more votes than Hillary in a "fair" election. Anyway as Matt Taibbi points out:

    A primary characteristic of any authoritarian situation, from East Germany to high school, is the total uselessness of facts and evidenc ...[text shortened]... rst few weeks tearing apart presidential tradition like a troop of apes let loose in the Louvre,
    I remember being absolutely confident that the 1986 Yankees were as good as the 1986 Mets. Dennis Rasmussen was every bit as good as Dwight Gooden. The Mets played in a worse league and worse division. Ojeda was a mediocre pitcher having a good year. Ray Knight was a fluke. Mike Pagliarulo was a great player, who alas, was hitting .230 due to his abysmal luck of hitting line drives right at people all the time. Don Mattingly was the best player in baseball.

    All the Mets fans in my class who disagreed were just biased and couldn't see the clarity of my logic because they were blinded by their rooting interest. That the Mets won 15 more games and the World Series was simply a matter of better luck and better circumstances. But there was no WAY the Mets were *really* better than the Yankees. If only Ron Guidry hadn't gotten hurt....

    Of course, then I turned 10.

    Trump it still stuck on 9.
  9. Germany
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    13 Feb '17 17:28
    Originally posted by whodey
    Really? Do you a lie tally?
    Those who have done such "lie tallies" easily concluded that Trump does, in fact, lie overwhelmingly more often than Obama did.
  10. Joined
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    13 Feb '17 17:541 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I'm not even sure he is lying; it's quite possible he is narcissist enough to believe that it is literally impossible that he didn't get more votes than Hillary in a "fair" election. Anyway as Matt Taibbi points out:

    A primary characteristic of any authoritarian situation, from East Germany to high school, is the total uselessness of facts and evidenc ...[text shortened]... rst few weeks tearing apart presidential tradition like a troop of apes let loose in the Louvre,
    I think you are both wrong.

    I think "the Donald" simply insists on getting the last word in with that word favoring him even if it is a lie

    It's all about self promotion which is what he has made a living at.

    As to whether he believes it, probably not. Case in point is his insistence that global warming is a hoax. Why would he then build a flood wall around his golf coarse on the coast of Ireland?

    It's like Donald saying he would throw Hillary in prison. He knew full well he would never do that. It was a promise made on self promotion, she is a criminal and I'm not.
  11. Joined
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    13 Feb '17 17:55
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Those who have done such "lie tallies" easily concluded that Trump does, in fact, lie overwhelmingly more often than Obama did.
    I will trust you.

    You seem like the trustworthy type.

    No reason to give us fake news to back what you are saying.
  12. Joined
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    13 Feb '17 17:57
    Originally posted by sh76
    Nah.

    He's just lying about voter fraud because he can't stomach the thought of his losing in any capacity. He's got the maturity of a 9 year old who thinks his little league team is the league's best and their 6-13 record is a product of bad luck and cheating by everyone else.

    That's my take, anyway.
    You mistake his appearance as "immature". What he is really doing is playing to the stupid voter.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 Feb '17 18:03
    Originally posted by sh76
    I remember being absolutely confident that the 1986 Yankees were as good as the 1986 Mets. Dennis Rasmussen was every bit as good as Dwight Gooden. The Mets played in a worse league and worse division. Ojeda was a mediocre pitcher having a good year. Ray Knight was a fluke. Mike Pagliarulo was a great player, who alas, was hitting .230 due to his abysmal luck o ...[text shortened]... Ron Guidry hadn't gotten hurt....

    Of course, then I turned 10.

    Trump it still stuck on 9.
    I'd speculate his childhood was more like this then yours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilight_Zone)
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 Feb '17 18:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    You mistake his appearance as "immature". What he is really doing is playing to the stupid voter.
    Seems to be working in your case.
  15. Joined
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    13 Feb '17 18:49
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Seems to be working in your case.
    How is your childhood going?
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